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  1. #1
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    Is Win8 better than Win7 behind the curtain?

    User-interface issues aside, I'm wondering if the underlying architecture of Win8 Pro makes it preferable to use over Win7 Pro? I'm about to install a new OS and have both available. I have no interest in the Win8 gee-whiz interface; I don't have a touchscreen; no UEFI capability, and I would use it from the desktop after installing Start8. I just want something more stable, and perhaps improved.

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  3. #2
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    The machines on which I have Win8 boot faster than when they had Win7. I don't notice as many of the annoying network related slowdowns when using Windows Explorer that I had with Win7. I've noticed that for some of the monthly fixes required for Win7 & IE9 there have not been corresponding Win8 & IE10 fixes. I do not spend much time on a laptop but supposedly the power management has been improved.

    If you want to much more detailed description of what went into Windows 8 see Building Windows 8. This is a blog from the Windows engineering team which has a great many detailed entries on what Microsoft management considered to be important to share.

    Joe

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  5. #3
    Silver Lounger mrjimphelps's Avatar
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    I have read that memory is more randomized in Windows 8 than in Windows 7, which means that it is harder for malware to take over your PC, because it is not able to anticipate which areas of memory will be available, and what will be in those areas of memory.

    Also, there are certain nice features like Hyper-V (virtual machines) and auto-continuous backup of changes which occur in specified folders.

    These features would, in my opinion, satisfy your requirement to have a more stable, improved OS.

    On the negative side, they say it is next to impossible to boot to Safe Mode; and there's no more F8 key initiating a factory rebuild, at least not from the Windows side.

    I would like to install Windows 8 so that I can get familiar with it, because I am an IT professional. I would also like to see if I would like it or not. I missed my chance recently to get a cheap copy from Microsoft. Hopefully I can find a cheap copy in the near future.

    Those who have installed it and have stuck with it for a while almost unanimously say that they would never go back to Windows 7.

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  7. #4
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Auggie,

    IMHO if you don't have a touch screen stick w/7. I've been using 8 all the way back to the previews. I use it every day on my main machine because I'm trying to give it a fair trial.
    Win 8 Pros

    1. Better security, but that's just out of the box. If you follow a good multi-layered security plan you shouldn't have any problems with 7.
    2. Quicker boot
    3. Better resource allocation
    4. Secure boot (if you have UEFI bios)


    Win 8 Cons

    1. Looks like Win 3.1 {Aero may have been a pig but I did like the way it looked}
    2. Flipping between desktop and Modern UI {every time I try to look at a picture attached to an email}
    3. Finding commands that have moved - relearning in general of things I've known how to find for years!
    4. No Start Button {remember this is MY opinion - no flaming needed} I've installed StartIsBack to fix this.
    5. Makes dual booting harder unless you replace the Win 8 boot loader.
    6. Metro UI apps are still beta in my opinion.


    In the end I'd recommend, if possible, that you get some time in on a Win 8 machine and then make up your own mind. After all you're the one who has to be happy with it. HTH
    Last edited by RetiredGeek; 2013-04-01 at 16:35.
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  9. #5
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    It very much depends on what you intend to use the OS for.

    Many home users, will notice a look and feel difference, but will not be concerned at all about the under the bonnet changes.

    The ASLR changes mrjimphelps mentions are documented improvements, but Microsoft have not made public (for obvious reasons) what improvements these are and how much of a difference they make.

    Secure Boot was recently a topic discussed in this forum and can under certain circumstances lead to improved security during boot time, but can also have undesired effects if the user is perhaps classed as a power user.

    Backup schemes are improved, particularly in automation, but still do not really enter the realm of the better drive imaging applications.

    Some features such as system monitoring and diagnostics are improved (task manager being an obvious one).

    Speed of system response has been reported to be better, but is often subjective. I have seen results of a very limited study into a clean installed Windows 7, a fully patched Windows 7 and a new clean install of Windows 8 and there are measurable speed improvements in Windows 8. From my personal point of view however, those improvements are relatively minor and I suspect many reported speed improvements are comparing apples with oranges in terms of clean system versus old system.

    Personally speaking, I have evaluated Win8 and work with it from time to time, but it will not be my main OS of choice for a very long time, if ever. This is not because I don't like it, but mainly because I have to take a risk managed approach and installing Windows 8 on my user base would give me huge headaches of user training and consume a lot of time and resource testing and configuring for our environment which I simply can't afford to divert from other more pressing tasks. I still support XP and am busy migrating my users to Win7; the latter being our OS of choice moving forward for several years.

    Is Win8 better? Possibly, maybe...maybe not, it depends...but is an orange better than an apple?.....no it's an orange and is different to an apple, even if it can be covered in an apple skin.

    It is entirely possible you will receive many different views. My best advice would be to download the free 90-day Enterprise trial version of Win8 from here, take it for a spin and make your own choices.
    In God we trust; all others must bring data.

    - William Edwards Deming. 1900 - 1993

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    I'm of the opinion, for a large screen home system, if one scrapes off Windows 8, puts a few things back in place, Windows 7.5 is still there and I give it half a point to represent half a step forward; most of the time was spent developing the Modern interface I think. The rest you'll probably have to make peace with, one way or another. There may be added issues or alternative techniques needed to address problems if anything goes wrong but dealing with those on your initiative by making regular images will mitigate those. I second the notion that the apps are in beta; actually I would say they are in the computing equivalent of the Stone Age.

    More stable? Well, it doesn't seem to be any less stable from my experience than Seven or XP as long as one doesn't do anything odd or test bed oriented like I was. To each his or her own experience there, my XP builds since about the time of SP3 have been the most stable of any since 2004 (SP2).

    Of course if ever planning on going to a touch interface at any time in the future then Windows 8 is the one and only Windows choice.

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    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    I have Windows 8 Pro installed as a dual boot on my desktop and laptop. To reduce the hassle of the Windows 8 bootloader, I junked it - I'm using the Windows 7 boot loader. I'm tinkering with Windows 8, but not really using it, and don't have anything installed other than StartIsBack and Registry ToolKit.

    If I can get it to run the way I like to run Windows, I might start using it more, but Windows 7 is my OS of choice. I've never had any stability issues with Windows 7. The only bluescreens I've ever had were both caused by failing hardware.

    I don't care for touch. I don't even like it on my phone (I wish they still made the Motorola Razr V3).

    Oh, and my own speed tests between my fresh install of Windows 8 vs my old install of Windows 7 (on identical hardware, since I'm dual booting) showed nothing noticeable. Windows 8 might boot faster, but then I don't shut down, so boot times for me are meaningless.
    Last edited by bbearren; 2013-04-01 at 18:15.
    Create a new drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "Let them that don't want it have memories of not gettin' any." "Gratitude is riches and complaint is poverty and the worst I ever had was wonderful." Brother Dave Gardner "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else." Sir Thomas Robert Deware. "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?" Captain Jack Sparrow.
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  15. #8
    5 Star Lounger Browni's Avatar
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    @op

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinto Tech View Post
    It very much depends on what you intend to use the OS for...

    My best advice would be to download the free 90-day Enterprise trial version of Win8 from here, take it for a spin and make your own choices.
    This.

    I have my own views as to why I now prefer W8 but they not be applicable for your own use.

    As Retired Geek & Tinto Tech say, take it for a test run.

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    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    RG, I believe if your set your Defaults Programs in Control Panel, you can eliminate the Metro use for opening images in your emails. Mine all open with desktop apps (Picture Viewer or Photo Gallery) whichever I prefer. I can also use other apps if I choose.

    As most know, I am one of those that will not go back to Win 7. I have conventional mouse and keyboard laptops without any touch. Looks and feels like Win 7 with the added security and speed advantages.
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    Windows 8 seems good

    IMO Windows 8 is pretty much Windows 7 with a new interface, which many PC users hate. However, if you boot to the desktop and add a desktop toolbar to the taskbar you will hardly notice any difference - only lack of a start button. And you can add this if you have to with an app.

  18. #11
    Lounge VIP bobprimak's Avatar
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    http://arstechnica.com/information-t...f-windows-8/3/
    and
    http://arstechnica.com/information-t...s-performance/
    This says it all, with graphic details.

    Yes, Windows 8 is better than Windows 7 under the hood in many, many ways.

    I particularly like the better user interface when copying multiple files to multiple locations with Win 8 Pro vs. Win 7 HP. Simultaneous transfers, clear indicators of progress, and better use of my four hyperthreads in my Intel Core-i5 processor. Cuts by about half the time needed to back up my data. Windows 8 is also more efficient in transferring large files (like System Backup copies).

    By the way, the article also demonstrates that Chrome is more efficient under Windows 8 than IE 10. I have experienced this, especially when streaming videos or doing large downloads.

    I have corrected an incorrect Web Link at the top of this post. Which makes BruceR's reply seem unnecessary now.
    Last edited by bobprimak; 2013-04-06 at 13:37. Reason: Wrong Web Link.
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  19. #12
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Which is dated October 23, 2012, and not really relevant to today's installed base. Some of the "improvements" make absolutely no difference whatsoever to the average user. As of February 2013, the Windows 8 growth rate in the desktop market is slower than that of Windows Vista, and waaayyy slower than that of Windows 7.

    Truth is, some folks say it's better, some folks say it is a step backward, some don't even care enough about Windows 8 to express an opinion.

    The only way you'll be able to learn anything of relevance to you is to download and install the 90-day free trial version of Enterprise and try it out.
    Create a new drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "Let them that don't want it have memories of not gettin' any." "Gratitude is riches and complaint is poverty and the worst I ever had was wonderful." Brother Dave Gardner "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else." Sir Thomas Robert Deware. "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?" Captain Jack Sparrow.
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  20. #13
    Lounge VIP bobprimak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbearren View Post
    Which is dated October 23, 2012, and not really relevant to today's installed base. Some of the "improvements" make absolutely no difference whatsoever to the average user. As of February 2013, the Windows 8 growth rate in the desktop market is slower than that of Windows Vista, and waaayyy slower than that of Windows 7.

    Truth is, some folks say it's better, some folks say it is a step backward, some don't even care enough about Windows 8 to express an opinion.

    The only way you'll be able to learn anything of relevance to you is to download and install the 90-day free trial version of Enterprise and try it out.
    Not to argue with you, as I have a similar low opinion of the future of Windows RT. And Windows 8 Pro will probably suffer as its less-capable cousin goes down the toilet.

    But I do find that on the technical side, that ExtremeTech article is fully up to date. The facts and test-bed results are reasonably objective, and tests were conducted under well-controlled conditions. Only the Chrome and IE 10 versions have been updated, so that little line in my post could be criticized as dated.

    The issue with Windows 8 is not its under the hood robustness. The performance improvements and most of the security improvements are beyond question.

    The reason folks do not like and will ultimately reject Windows 8 is the User Interface, which has changed in a jarring way.

    But only if you use the Modern (Metro) side of the OS. Which I seldom do.

    If you want to see the probable future of personal computing, head over to liliputing.com and take a look at their top dozen or so entries on the main page. Things are getting smaller, and user interfaces are no longer subject to being customized unless you enjoy rooting Android or putzing around with little Linux distros on impossibly small devices.

    Almost all of these devices are made in China by Chinese companies or Samsung, and nearly all run Android or little Linuxes. Almost all the programming is done by folks in India. The main draw is the very low prices and the very simple installation of these "liliputers". Some plug into a HDTV, while others stand alone and require only a bit of reconfiguration to turn them into unlocked open-sourced operating environments with many, many available Apps.

    This is what a publication about Windows Secrets should be reporting on. Even though the site has almost nothing with the words Apple, iPad, Windows or Slate in it.

    Personal computing can be done simpler and cheaper than Microsoft and Apple have brainwashed consumers into believing. The Small-Tech devices are beginning to become more flexible and more powerful. Yes, this is Bleeding Edge today, but within two years, I see an explosion of cheap, full-powered, user-configurable (but fully configured if you don't want to bother with tweaking) Small-Tech devices flooding the American market. By then, the user interfaces and full system configurations will have been developed. Prices will rise a bit, but not into the rarified air where present-day Apple and Microsoft tablets and smartphones are. Even an ordinary HDTV will be able to run Android, Google Play and Open-sourced Linux Apps.

    Windows 8 and Apple iOS are the state of the art today, and they are about half-baked. But the future of consumer-level computing seems to me to point in an entirely different direction -- with nary a Windows device in sight.

    Feel free to disagree -- there's room for a lot of discussion about these trends.

    Note that I am referring to the articles at this site, not the ad-hype "Top 30 Products" list or anything else like that.
    Last edited by bobprimak; 2013-04-06 at 13:39. Reason: Clarify which part of the site is being referenced.
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  21. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobprimak View Post
    http://www.extremetech.com/computing...from-windows-7

    By the way, the article also demonstrates that Chrome is more efficient under Windows 8 than IE 10.
    How? That article doesn't mention Chrome or IE10.

    Bruce

  22. #15
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medico View Post
    RG, I believe if your set your Defaults Programs in Control Panel, you can eliminate the Metro use for opening images in your emails.
    Duh!, Thanks Ted works like a charm.
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

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