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  1. #1
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    Is Microsoft wavering on the Start button and boot to desktop?

    http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-wind...op-7000014075/

    Speculation is fun. Just remember this quote fro the article:
    "Until it ships, anything can change," said my source, who requested anonymity.

    Jerry

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    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    Booting to desktop would be fine by me, but the start menu I have no more use for.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
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  3. #3
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    That's fine. Just give those of us that want it the option to install the start button if we want it. Then we are all happy.

    Actually, all I really want is to not kill the third party options like Classic Shell or Start is Back so I can kill the hot spots as well.

    Jerry

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    I have not been using Windows 8 for a long time. I am not afraid to try new things. My start with computers was a course in programming I took while in the Air Force in North Dakota in 1966 and 67. The course was learning how to write a program using punch cards. When I got out of the Air Force and went to college in 1970 punch cards was still the newest thing. I didn't have any more contact with "computers" until I bought a VIC 20 in the late 1980's. You basically had to write your own programs using the BASIC computer language. Sure you could buy games on cassette tapes that worked on the machine, but it was more fun to write your own. In 1989 I bought our family's first real computer. It was a Tandy from Radio Shack. No hard drive. Programs including the operating system came on 5 1/2" floppy disks. A huge improvement. A year later or so we traded up to a computer with a 40 megabyte hard drive. We worked our way through lots of upgrades over the next few years. We used all kinds of "Shell" programs to take the "nerdy" out of DOS. Then in the late 90's we started with Windows 3.1, then Windows 98 and so on up to the present Windows 8.
    I've played with Linux in it's various forms and it always reminds me of the old DOS shell days. Not a real operating system for the masses, but a usable system for computer nerdy types.
    I've used Apple products over the years and the newer ones are totally usable, but I prefer Windows machines except for tablets. I was very pleased with my wife's first generation IPad. You pick it up, turn it on and immediately can start using it. No learning curve at all. The new ones are even better. But I don't do work on an Ipad and I don't know anybody that does. They are entertainment machines.

    My first use of Windows 8 was a different experience. My new laptop booted up and it took about a half hour to go through the setup process. Then the misery started. With no instructions it was a totally alien environment. It was not intuitive like the IPad. Without a touch screen nothing seemed to make any sense. I clicked on an icon to start a program then had to boot up my old laptop to look up out how to close it. Not my idea of how to make a good first impression.

    Since then I have installed StartIsBack and boot directly to the desktop and a start menu that feels familiar. I continue to play with the new modern UI but have yet to find a single redeeming feature on a machine without a touchscreen. The new windows mail won't work with any of my email accounts because they use POP3. Microsoft in their wisdom has decided that your mail must use IMAP. I tried the Zinio app because I use Zinio 4 to read my online magazine subscriptions. It didn't work, I could buy magazines but I couldn't read any. So I uninstalled it and installed Zinio 4 which works fine from the desktop. From what I've seen, when you start an app or program from the new UI, the first thing you see is the Desktop while it opens the program. I just seems to be not very well thought out. It reminds me of a shell program to avoid looking at the desktop. On a tablet it may be fine, but I'm not using a tablet.
    With StartIsBack running I love the computer. It seems like a very stable Windows 7. Windows 8's modern UI seems to be an attempt at trying to out do Apple. While IOS on a IPad is intuitive and easy to use with no instruction, the modern UI is anything but intuitive. Microsoft has been the workhorse of American business for about 15 years, they should embrace that and continue to serve their core customers. Put their modern UI on tablets and use the old start menu on desktop and laptops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caveman144 View Post
    My start with computers was a course in programming I took while in the Air Force in North Dakota in 1966 and 67. The course was learning how to write a program using punch cards. When I got out of the Air Force and went to college in 1970 punch cards was still the newest thing.
    My start with computers was a course called Electronic Digital Data Equipment Maintenance and Repair that I took while in the Air Force in Biloxi Mississippi [Keesler Technical Training Center, Keesler AFB] from November 1962 to July 1963. I learned how to fix them, but not to program them or even operate them.

    I started learning to program at The University of Maryland, College Park in September 1977, and got my degree in Computer Science from The University of Maryland University College [the night school] in December 1982.

    Punch cards were not new, but they were all we were allowed to use to input our programs for the first two years. But I bought the Univac 1100 manuals, and figured out how to use the monitors. I didn't have any storage, so at the end of each session, I had to punch my program to cards, and at the beginning of the next session after I logged on I had to enter it into my workspace from the punch cards. After that we got storage and didn't have to use punch cards.

    My first computer was a $600.00 Heathkit H-88, which was like the H-89 except it didn't have the $600.00 20Mb hard drive.

    Then I got an Osborne II and then after that, I built myself a PC compatible.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    But I bought the Univac 1100 manuals, and figured out how to use the monitors.
    I designed part of the IO system on the 1100's from that era. I may have been the cause of any issues you may have encountered.

    Jerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwitalka View Post
    I designed part of the IO system on the 1100's from that era. I may have been the cause of any issues you may have encountered.

    Jerry
    We used 1004 & 1005 when I first started. My first program was wiring a plug board on a 1004. Then we installed a 9400. Wrote an online order entry & inventory control system for that in 1970. We installed an 1100/20 in 73 or 74. Can't remember the exact year any more. I remember being on weekly conference calls because we were part of the beta test group for the exec & dms. IIRC, it was the first release of the exec to support the 1100/20.

    Joe

  8. #8
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    The 1100/20 was developed with code name Chaparral as I recall. The 9400 came out of Blue Bell near Philadelphia. The 1100/60 (Vanguard) was really my baby. This all brings back a lot of fond memories. We had a great group of designers. Also got to know a lot of the key exec developers as well. Not much left of the old design plant any more. We used to have 6 buildings. Now they are down to one floor in one building.

    Jerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwitalka View Post
    I designed part of the IO system on the 1100's from that era. I may have been the cause of any issues you may have encountered.

    Jerry
    The manuals were well written and there was a lot in them, so if you wanted to do a specific thing, finding the bits that you needed could take awhile, but no complaints. Later I learned IBM systems programming on a 370 system with JCL. The Univac system was much better in my opinion.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwitalka View Post
    The 1100/20 was developed with code name Chaparral as I recall. The 9400 came out of Blue Bell near Philadelphia. The 1100/60 (Vanguard) was really my baby. This all brings back a lot of fond memories. We had a great group of designers. Also got to know a lot of the key exec developers as well. Not much left of the old design plant any more. We used to have 6 buildings. Now they are down to one floor in one building.

    Jerry
    Had a really good group of software designers and developers in the Exec & DMS groups too. Very solid. Almost never had an unplanned stop (even with the local code I put in ).

    Joe

  11. #11
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    Had a really good group of software designers and developers in the Exec & DMS groups too. Very solid. Almost never had an unplanned stop (even with the local code I put in ).
    We're having a company reunion get together next week. If I run into one of the Exec people, I'll pass that along.

    Jerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwitalka View Post
    http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-wind...op-7000014075/

    Speculation is fun. Just remember this quote fro the article:
    "Until it ships, anything can change," said my source, who requested anonymity.

    Jerry
    It seems to be pretty much assured:

    http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/ma...-it-windows-78
    Rui
    -------
    R4

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ruirib For This Useful Post:

    caveman144 (2013-04-19),mrjimphelps (2013-04-19)

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruirib View Post
    It seems to be pretty much assured:

    http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/ma...-it-windows-78
    Huzzah!

  15. #14
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    I'm more concerned about the ability to disable the four hot spots. As for the return of the Start Button, it depends on how its implemented. The only things I really use it for are:
    1. Global search of apps, Control Items, and files. (these are separate searches in Win 8 now)
    2. One click access to shut down options
    3. Control Panel applets menu flyout

    I get all of this in Classic Shell as well as the ability to disable the Hot Spots.

    Jerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwitalka View Post
    We're having a company reunion get together next week. If I run into one of the Exec people, I'll pass that along.

    Jerry
    Have a great time.

    Joe

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