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  1. #1
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    Windows 8.1 build 9374 has Start button, but

    Its nothing more than an icon over the current lower left hot spot. Clicking it jut takes you to the Start Screen as it does now.

    http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft..._pm_2013-04-22

    Jerry

  2. #2
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    The extent to which the 'Classic Menu' component of Classic Shell can be customized yields an interface superior to whatever concession Microsoft might make to users lost in or dissatisfied with the Start screen. A pseudo-Start button that only reverted to the Metro Start screen would be an insult to our intelligence.

    I would grant that Metro's Start is appropriate for tablets and maybe as well for touch-screen notebooks. As much as I appreciate Classic Shell and invested time to make it clean and comprehensive, no PC interface matches the 'legacy' Desktop power and efficiency of Yuri Kobets' shareware utility True Launch Bar.

    The pic below displays the rows of menus, app+shutdown-shortcuts, optical drive and media player controls that have been placed in the former 'Quick Launch' area of a vertically arrayed Taskbar set to Autohide on Windows 8 Pro.

    The 7-[small] icon width of the Taskbar has been adjusted for a 28-inch monitor in landscape mode. Personally, I think this system demonstrates how impoverished Microsoft's method of 'pinning' icons either to the Taskbar or to Start really is. However, the cost of all this customization is the exertion of bending Windows GUI to one's will; obviously that is not for all users.


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    Last edited by HansPeter; 2013-04-26 at 13:44.

  3. #3
    3 Star Lounger
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    That's certainly not going to please the people who don't want to use their new Start page. I saw an article the other day that a lot of big businesses are probably going to continue with XP even after MS discontinues support for it next year. Companies now in the process of switching to Windows 7 aren't going to mess with Windows 8 either. They may force people to use it in time but for now it is costing them sales of traditional desktop and laptop users. Computers don't become obsolete nearly as fast as they did 10 years ago either.
    Joe

  4. #4
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    I reported on this right after I heard Window Weekly last Saturday or so. It's still beyond my sensible comprehension why one interface has to be neutered to welcome another but at least this is a change in the direction of switchable interfaces instead of the wildly unlevel playing field of unification. One would think some of the Charms bar properties/actions have to come back to the desktop as well, exist in both in their own appropriate form, like search. Without a start menu though we'll have to wait and see if and how Microsoft reconnects those dots. I'll heap nothing but praise if they ever do come up with something as or more efficient, thorough and customizable to boot.

  5. #5
    2 Star Lounger
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    I am beginning to think that Microsoft is trying to sell more copies of Windows 7. I just purchased a new laptop and in the store all of the laptops came with Windows 8. If a machine with Windows 7 was available I would have bought it, but none were available. If the 1st update in August blocks the use of StartIsBack and the other add-on start menus I will have to buy a copy of Windows 7. After about a month with the new laptop I have yet to find anything even remotely useful about the new start menu. I may have a different opinion if I had a touch screen, but I really doubt it. If I could eliminate the new UI and just use the old start menus it would be a no brainer.

    Most of the "apps" are really just menus that will open your browser and take you to a web site where you actually get to see the content. Others just don't work at all. The apps on my smart phone are all much better. I also don't see any big rush from app builders to make new apps.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwitalka View Post
    Its nothing more than an icon over the current lower left hot spot. Clicking it jut takes you to the Start Screen as it does now.
    Seems the countless refund requests from Amazon alone has forced them to take notice.. The fact that their response basically amounts to little more than a middle finger at everyone that has complained just goes to show how little they're listening and how little they care. On ya Microsoft.. Screw the consumers.. you know better! LOL

    Absolutely hilarious. I can't wait for the news articles once it becomes an official release. :-)

  7. #7
    3 Star Lounger
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    Since MS seem to hate the traditional desktop user so much they should add one more annoying feature to the start button that you can't disable, a raspberry sound!
    Joe

  8. #8
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    This Week in Tech referred to it as botching the botch! Leo also postulated that it's the Steve Jobs effect of dictating to the consumer what they want and then forgetting that the very reason so many eschew Apple is because of that lack of flexibility and choice (I added the last part).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.N. downtown View Post
    This Week in Tech referred to it as botching the botch! Leo also postulated that it's the Steve Jobs effect of dictating to the consumer what they want and then forgetting that the very reason so many eschew Apple is because of that lack of flexibility and choice (I added the last part).
    Not sure if you're joking there or not but to be fair, in my opinion, Apple Mac's are only as stable and reliable as they are for precisely that reason. They don't allow much screwing around with the core operating system. It's their way or the highway. Fortunately, the MAC OS X operating system is very intuitive to use.

    Many a time I've been called out to jobs where the problems being caused were a direct result of people allowing their kids into the workplace and allowing them on a workstation to keep them busy. Heh.. happily that practice often keeps me busy as well.

    Quite a few Apple Mac's in offices around Melbourne as a direct result of me telling people that in order to keep their external IT costs down, they should have a MAC in the office for their kids to use after school on a restricted account, to which only they know the administrator account password. I should ask Apple for a cut on sales ;-)

    Cheers...

  10. #10
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    My wife recently bought a new laptop with Win8 and after a couple of hours tearing my hair out trying to help her (I'm the techie one, not her) I installed one of the freeware start-menu replacements. That's improved matters a lot, Start button and all.

    I can't understand what MS thought they were doing trying to do with Win8. If you don't have a touchscreen, the Metro/Modern interface is pretty close to useless (thought see below) and the applications it presents remind you or demonstrate how simplistic most touchscreen apps are. Like the built in "Mail" app for a start, which might be what you use frist since it is at top left in the display. It is less capable than my Android smartphone's mail.

    Now, to be fair I did discover last night while trying to reduce the sensitivity of the touchpad on the keyboard that there are a whole load of gestures the touchpad can accept which would almost (I do say almost) make the Metro/Modern side of Win8 usable as if you had a touchscreen. That's sort of good news (not telling wife though) - but in many ways bad news because what it shows is that someone has forgotten to stress how much you really need to get involved with the hardware/software UI customisation when you get a new Win8 system. I guess maybe XP lulled us into a false sense of security that learning curves were small. But I'm prepared to bet that not much more than 20% of people wil ever find out about that customisation opportunity.

  11. #11
    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
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    Regardless, of what 'fixes' are out there for Windows 8, most home computer users have no idea about it. They don't read computer magazines or Blogs or jump on internet forums. Then when they come home with a new PC, (usually because their old XP machine has died,) with Windows 8 on it, they try to figure it all out and in many cases just wind up taking the new PC back to the store to get their money back.

    Now it's a whole different story, when that same person calls me to come and set up their now PC.
    After installing the "Classic Shell" and "Grand Admin Full Control" , I can make their new PC look and act much like their old XP PC.
    I can even activate 'Windows Mail', a close relative of their old favorite, O.E.6.
    And if their old PC isn't a smoking ruin, I can even import their address book and saved emails into Windows Mail.

    The touch pad on a Laptop can and often does become a real hazard. I sell a lot of mice to laptop owners, because a mouse is a lot faster and less apt to cause problems than the touch pad. I find too, that many users have already covered their touch pad with a stiff piece of paper and they use a USB mouse, either corded or wireless. I even saw one laptop that had a button to turn off the touchpad. Just take 'Synaptics Pointing Device" out of the Startup group and the problem is solved.

    Sorry, off topic! For the adventuresome or Techie, Windows 8 is COOL! But for the old time user it's a big mistake that needs to be Fixed.

    I'm refurbishing Windows XP machines for people who don't want a new PC with Windows 8 on it.

    Cheers Mates!
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  12. #12
    Star Lounger
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    8 equals carp in almost all facets of its design. I will go to Mac before I ever entertain buying it or anything that comes with it.

  13. #13
    Silver Lounger
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    Hey, were battling for you too man, because I want to use Windows now and far into the future and am never going to Mac at all, especially following their path of evolution wherein their real PCs are all but ignored now in favor of fanciful and more disposable and more mobile devices. I for one will never become a walking automaton glued to a screen whilst the world passes me by.

  14. #14
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    For a desktop Win 8 makes no sense. Switching to mac might make sense for some, but i will not lock myself in to them. I have installed Linux Mint on several PCs and laptops and it is great. I do prefer Win 7 but increasingly that will not be an option unless MS start listening to their customers.....so I will not hold my breath!

  15. #15
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I have to disagree. I use Win 8 exclusively in the Desktop mode and find it works very well. We have two non-touch enabled laptops (I just sold my non-touch enabled desktop which also had Win 8 installed) and Win 8 works very well on them. I suppose if I had a Touch enabled device I might see to what you are referring, but since I do not, I very much enjoy Win 8 on our non-touch enabled devices.

    From my personal perspective, I found Linux too "Geeky" for my taste. I had to work too much at it to accomplish anything. I suppose if I had continued to use it I would grow to enjoy it. I found the learning curve even more than Win 8, which with a couple of customizations works very much like Win 7.

    I will not however disparage those that like Linux from using that fine OS. It just was not for me.
    Last edited by Medico; 2013-05-03 at 06:06.
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