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  1. #1
    WS Lounge VIP access-mdb's Avatar
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    Device on the charms bar and other things

    The thread (now closed) about the devices link on the charms bar got me thinking and experimenting. I generally donít use the charms bar and ignore it when it occasionally flashes into view. However, when I read the replies by Rui et al, I did some experimenting. And I found an app where it was used (the map one). No doubt there are other apps where this is true, but many I tried just said that the app canít send anything at this time. So this is an issue with apps not Win 8.

    However, I do find this constant sniping of Win8 to be somewhat tiresome and wish people would just give up. If you donít like it then use Win 7 or Vista, or XP or NT4, or .. or Ö Itís fair enough to ask questions Ď I havenít found a use for Devices on the charms bar, are there any?í, you might find you get a polite answer.

    Personally, I find many of the criticisms of Win 8 to be unfair (I was going to write fatuous, but thatís being emotive). ďItís only for touch screensĒ, no it isnít Ė I have no problems with any of it and I donít have a touchscreen Ė and probably wonít get one. ďThe start page is a messĒ. Iíve put what I want on the start screen (got rid of most of the live tiles) and now I can get to stuff much quicker than ever I did on Win7. You can adapt it (and whatís different about Win8 to any other OS in this respect?). I could go on but I might get moderated.

    Is it perfect? No more or less than any other OS, just a bit different. And in case youíre wondering, Iím 64 on Oak Apple day this month and Iíve used many of MSís offerings from DOS 5 and Windows 3.1 onwards. Iíve even played with Linux and MacOS and a few other obscure ones. And most of them got people arguing the new one was rubbish and MS was going down the tubes. Iím pretty sure XP was rubbished when it first came out, ho ho!

    Iíll get off my hobby horse now and return to just asking questions!

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    I've found one pretty much has to keep opinion to oneself because I find/found (don't use 8 anymore) the well thought out criticisms very well-founded. I lasted 4.5 months, Leo LaPorte lasted about 3.5 months before altering back to 3rd party start menu, Woody may still be suffering, Microsoft knows Win 8 is going over like a lead balloon and is trying to adapt back to something more usable, etc. etc.
    I have no problem with Microsoft offering an alternate and expanded interface for other forms of interaction, but it should never have been combined as it was, it was like combining a plotter with a petroglyph; and then taking away the control panel for the plotter!!

    Develop them separately until the touch interface and apps become somewhat capable in a comparative environment; then it might be more acceptable. Until then there are going to be strong reactions. Referring to the closed thread is a great example; some folks are ignoring the really awful parts and some cannot stomach them at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by access-mdb View Post
    The thread (now closed) about the devices link on the charms bar got me thinking and experimenting. I generally don’t use the charms bar and ignore it when it occasionally flashes into view. However, when I read the replies by Rui et al, I did some experimenting. And I found an app where it was used (the map one). No doubt there are other apps where this is true, but many I tried just said that the app can’t send anything at this time. So this is an issue with apps not Win 8.

    However, I do find this constant sniping of Win8 to be somewhat tiresome and wish people would just give up. If you don’t like it then use Win 7 or Vista, or XP or NT4, or .. or … It’s fair enough to ask questions ‘ I haven’t found a use for Devices on the charms bar, are there any?’, you might find you get a polite answer.

    Personally, I find many of the criticisms of Win 8 to be unfair (I was going to write fatuous, but that’s being emotive). “It’s only for touch screens”, no it isn’t – I have no problems with any of it and I don’t have a touchscreen – and probably won’t get one. “The start page is a mess”. I’ve put what I want on the start screen (got rid of most of the live tiles) and now I can get to stuff much quicker than ever I did on Win7. You can adapt it (and what’s different about Win8 to any other OS in this respect?). I could go on but I might get moderated.

    Is it perfect? No more or less than any other OS, just a bit different. And in case you’re wondering, I’m 64 on Oak Apple day this month and I’ve used many of MS’s offerings from DOS 5 and Windows 3.1 onwards. I’ve even played with Linux and MacOS and a few other obscure ones. And most of them got people arguing the new one was rubbish and MS was going down the tubes. I’m pretty sure XP was rubbished when it first came out, ho ho!

    I’ll get off my hobby horse now and return to just asking questions!
    Windows 8 brings a lot of new stuff, especially for Windows 8 metro apps. It's normal for many OS features to be still at an initial phase and for many of those new features to see very little use, as app developers do not immediately take advantage of new features. It may also happen that some new features turn out not to be as useful as their creator intended them to be.

    As to Windows 8, well, it clearly draws emotional responses from people, on both sides of the fence (as it seems there is one). An OS, just like a computer, is not really more than a tool, but I guess even tools can draw these emotional reactions. Anyways, we are a bit better than sometime ago, as these disputes decreased in number and although we always try hard to avoid these disputes, I fear they cannot be entirely avoidable, although they should be.
    Rui
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    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I find @access-mdb comments right on. If you don't like Win 8, then don't use it, use another OS of your choice. If you have decided not to use Win 8 continuing to disparage it is counter-productive IMO. Just get past it and continue answering questions or comments in your chosen OS. I no longer use Win 7 or Win XP, but I do not continually tell every one who will listen or read my comments how bad it was or why I hated it. Just use the OS of your choice and be content. Please don't disparage the OS of my choice simply because you don't like it.

    Note: The you in this post does NOT refer to anyone in particular. It is intended as a generic you.
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    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    Thanks access-mdb, that's how questions should be presented and comments made, in an objective and non judgmental fashion.
    I can relate to peoples frustration in learning a new OS, and even just downright un-acceptance of it and it's "useless" features.
    But that should never justify an emotion filled bash and rant.

    Now, getting back to the device section on the charms bar area...
    On my system at least, the device section seems to be limited to adding another monitor, but that can also be done in the control panel or ones GPU control panel as part of a desktop modification. It would probably be more efficient and effective to use the GPU's control panel to set up another monitor rather than go through this specific section of devices in charms bar.
    The devices section of the charms bar, and even the devices section of the "settings" section of the charms bar looks to be like a work in progress as MS evolves and tweaks it.
    So not too much use for it at this time, especially for a full tower desktop setup like mine. This will likely change in the future as MS takes more functionality from the desktop and transfers it to the new UI. At this point, who can really say how it's going to work out. I can only hope that MS starts taking user feedback more seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CLiNT View Post
    Now, getting back to the device section on the charms bar area...
    On my system at least, the device section seems to be limited to adding another monitor,
    It's the only way to print from any start app.

    Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruirib View Post
    As to Windows 8, well, it clearly draws emotional responses from people, on both sides of the fence (as it seems there is one).
    My impression is that most of the emotion on the 'naysayer' side of the fence comes from being told to shut and keep their opinions to themselves, while the boosters continue to feel free to boost. That has improved somewhat over the past few months, but more than a hint of it remains.

    Anyways, we are a bit better than sometime ago, as these disputes decreased in number and although we always try hard to avoid these disputes, I fear they cannot be entirely avoidable, although they should be.
    It would certainly help if the behavior of some of the other moderators (not you) were more impeccable. I don't know whether the previous thread was closed by someone else because CLiNT was becoming testy at his opinion (not 'fact', regardless of what he may believe) being challenged or whether he closed it himself as a way of stopping further debate (if the latter, I'd suggest a new policy that while any moderator should by all means feel free to engage in discussions simply as a member, when they do so they should leave moderation of that discussion to others).

    Quote Originally Posted by Medico View Post
    If you don't like Win 8, then don't use it, use another OS of your choice... Please don't disparage the OS of my choice simply because you don't like it.
    Hmmm. To be even-handed in this matter you really also ought to encourage those who LIKE Win 8 not to sing its praises, since that's no more (or less) relevant to the conversations here than the disparagements are. Until that happens, debate on the matter is unlikely to cease.

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    I think 90% of all the whining and griping about Win 8 could be eliminated by two simple fixes:
    1. Allow the user to choose whether to boot to the Desktop or Start Screen
    2. Restore the Start button to the Desktop

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    No need to stoop to whining and griping comments but yes, clearly, but just as clearly if you now keep going after that first surmising step, we're standing stalwart even for the folks who've standardized Win 8 back to Win 7 for all intents and purposes. Who takes the red pill and who takes the blue is unimportant as long as a clear message is sent that as is, it is unacceptable. Integration with something that is clearly far from even acceptably developed and then giving it precedence? Oh boy, recipe for disaster.


    If one examines the arguments they are often approaching from two different angles, yet converge smack dab on Win 8 because it is both things, good and stable and, horribly misdirected, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. That's not to be interpreted as desktop good, start screen bad, only that the interface compromises are truly bad and that that part of the Win 8 beta/alpha project has no business being in a public release.


    I'm sure the first hover car took a huge digger into the Tatooine desert when the wheels came off but by the time we see Luke speeding around in one it seems pretty darn good. I'm all for good change! Like how about Spring instead of 17" of snow and loss of power for half a day on the 2nd of May! The global warming crowd can kiss my you-know-what too!!
    Last edited by F.U.N. downtown; 2013-05-02 at 20:16. Reason: I called Luke Luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.N. downtown View Post
    Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. That's not to be interpreted as desktop good, start screen bad,
    Not the other way round, Shirley?


    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.N. downtown View Post
    I'm sure the first hover car took a huge digger into the Tatooine desert when the wheels came off but by the time we see Luke speeding around in one it seems pretty darn good.
    Do hover cars have wheels?


    Bruce

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    Remember the commercial where one guy coming down the street enjoying his chocolate bar, the other guy 90 degrees coming down the junction street sidewalk with the peanut butter jar? Ya, I was much older before I ever questioned what the heck a guy was doing walking with an open peanut butter jar! But anyway, they meet by accident at the corner...hey, you got peanut butter on my chocolate...hey, you got chocolate in my peanut butter! Mmmmm, and a star was born. Win 8...just the opposite. The guys walking down the sidewalk are just the guys walking down the sidewalk.

    Yes, bad CGI aside, presumably hover cars were held up by some form of round spinning structure before they evolved to hovering. I must say that that premise is entirely Earth-evolution based. Maybe they used tracks on everything prior; I seem to recall the little desert scavengers hauler was on a bunch of tracks, presumably to keep them from getting stuck in the sand so maybe...

    Ya got me on a technicality if you want to hold to a hover car with wheels cannot be called a hover car. I write longhand enough already though.
    Last edited by F.U.N. downtown; 2013-05-02 at 23:21.

  13. #12
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    My impression is that most of the emotion on the 'naysayer' side of the fence comes from being told to shut and keep their opinions to themselves, while the boosters continue to feel free to boost. That has improved somewhat over the past few months, but more than a hint of it remains.
    Well your impressions are wrong too Bill. I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with opinions that is different from my own.
    But I do have a serious problem with the way those opinions are presented and the original post demonstrated that very well.

    I also have a problem with trolling behaviors too Bill, like those deliberately choosing to insight conflict in their post, as well as those who come around
    later with no other responses but to defend them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLiNT View Post
    Well your impressions are wrong too Bill.
    Unless you consider yourself one of the 'naysayers', CLiNT, I'll suggest that you don't have a clue why they feel as they do in this area (and that the tenor of the conversation would improve noticeably if you managed to develop one).

    I also have a problem with trolling behaviors too Bill, like those deliberately choosing to insight conflict in their post, as well as those who come around
    later with no other responses but to defend them.
    Many of us have problems one way or another with our perceptions of others. The important thing to recognize is that they're subjective in nature (just like opinions) and thus likely imperfect.

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    The problem is no inflection is imparted...oh, you didn't notice my raised eyebrow when I wrote, "to be taken seriously?"

    ---and in the absence of inflection, one is attributed.
    Last edited by F.U.N. downtown; 2013-05-03 at 09:38.

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    "Devices" on the Charms bar can do only one thing from the desktop, and that is add a second screen (it even says "nothing can be sent from the desktop"). From the Start Screen, it is an entirely different matter, depending on what App is open. Open IE10 from the Start Screen, then open the Charms Bar and Devices, and the options to send to printer, send to XPS Document Writer, send to OneNote (if you have Office installed) are displayed.

    Like most of Windows, "Devices" in the Charms Bar is context sensitive - what it offers depends on what you're doing. So although it is basically useless from the Desktop, it is a functioning part of the Start Screen with varying uses which are context sensitive to whatever App is open.
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