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  1. #1
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    Do surge protectors slow down Internet speeds?

    Hi Friends!!!

    I apologize for being away so long (since the very beginning of the year). Health issues and such. Can you believe I still have my new build to build, all those shiny new parts and such? And I am back at square one going back to consult everything I was learning.

    But I have a new issue today. I just ordered a new power surge protector, an APC P11VNT3 Performance SurgeArrest 11 Outlet with Phone (Splitter), Coax and Ethernet Protection, 120V. From what I have thus far gathered, there are those who claim that utilizing such Ethernet connections significantly slows down internet speeds, while others claim no significant loss.

    I wish to know what you all have to say about that. Should I use it or not? I very much appreciate all of your input, Thank you!

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    As you already have it to hand why don't you test it and let us know the results. You have nothing to lose.

    cheers, Paul

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T View Post
    As you already have it to hand why don't you test it and let us know the results. You have nothing to lose.

    cheers, Paul
    Paul, I do not already have it to hand, I merely put in an order for it. Moreover, the confuser I am using now has its own connection issues... I don't know if it's my modem or network card or what. Meantime, I'm curious about everyone's input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard3 View Post
    From what I have thus far gathered, there are those who claim that utilizing such Ethernet connections significantly slows down internet speeds, while others claim no significant loss.
    Yes and no depending on the many facts not provided.

    All protectors degrade signals. How much does APC claim that degradation to be? Specification silence implies deception.

    A larger question. Do you want to protect from surges that typically do no damage? Or from another and typically destructive surge? Read APC's specs. It addressed the first question; not the second.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    Yes they can, but it's fairly minimal to notice.
    You would have to have had terrible speeds to begin with in order to notice.

    Personally I have never used a surge protector for my internet connection, probably should, but I frequent
    areas where thunderstorms and lightning are rare.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLiNT View Post
    I have never used a surge protector for my internet connection, probably should, ...
    Those lines already have superior protection installed for free. Using protectors that virtually do not degrade signals. As required by codes and other standards for longer than PCs have existed. But mostly unknown to consumers.

  7. #7
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    Most interesting and informative input guys. I thank you. I did not see/find any degradation details in the specs. But at least it features a "fail safe" mode. I live in an area where the threat of lightening is rather uncommon. However, I do have concerns about other appliances in the house like fridges, AC, fluorescent lights, vacuums, and such. I think that's why I had a couple short lived TV's until this one, when I got a better protector to go with it.

    The best internet speeds I can get for my money is really important to me, primarily because of YouTube and Skype HD. So one last thing I just did get for my new build is a new network card, Intel EXPI9301CTBLK Network Adapter 10/ 100/ 1000Mbps PCI-Express 1 x RJ45, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833106033 . I'm hoping that replacing the onboard Realtek will yield me comparable improvements in throughput as others have reported.

    Anyway, it seems to me, that one's choice of surge protection should perhaps be as important as one's consideration of a power supply.

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    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    Yes, you definitely want to have a surge protector for ALL the sensitive electronic equipment you have in the house, like TV/stereo/computer.
    The surge protector you decide on need not be the most expensive or highly rated. Mid-range will do just fine.

    The network card is a bit overkill imo, probably not worth the extra money above and beyond what the board comes with.
    Especially if it's a decent "enthusiasts" board.

    In my situation, (I just recently moved into a TT) so I'll need to concern myself with not only surge protection, but also under-voltage protection
    and other monitoring, like ground fault & polarity fault monitoring. Some of the worst things to happen to many appliances is not getting enough voltage
    to them, then they heat up due to the extra current draw. This can dramatically shorten their lifespan, especially air conditioners.

    You'll not likely have to concern yourself with most of the above beyond surge protection, but it is nice to know some of these things.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
    Latest Build:
    ASUS X99 Deluxe, Core i7-5960X, Corsair Hydro H100i, Plextor M6e 256GB M.2 SSD, Corsair DOMINATOR Platinum 32GB DDR4@2666, W8.1 64 bit,
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard3 View Post
    Anyway, it seems to me, that one's choice of surge protection should perhaps be as important as one's consideration of a power supply.
    Numerous anomalies can exist. Nothing averts all. Many, if not most, are already made irrelevant by what exists inside each electronic appliance. Many will recite fears from hearsay rather than learn what makes anomalies (ie low voltage) irrelevant. Same myths will also recommend protectors that do not even claim to protect from a typically destructive anomalies.

    For example, low voltage is popular with many who ignore numbers, are informed by subjective fears. and have no idea what is routinely accomplished inside all electronic appliances. Normal voltage for all electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. How often is your voltage dropping that much? Then be concerned for appliances actually at risk: ie refrigerator.

    1) If voltage drops that low, then AC utilities disconnect to protect the 'at risk' appliances - motors.
    2) International design standards, long before a PC existed, demand that low voltage is NOT destructive. One standard is so blunt as to put this expression in the entire low voltage section. And in all capital letters: "No Damage Region".
    3) If low voltage causes damage, then power off also causes that damage. Even electronic appliance 'power off' is a long period of low voltage.

    If low voltage exists (incandescent bulbs dimming less than 50% intensity), then a UPS is needed for each refrigerator. Or an electrician is needed ASAP for house wiring that threatens human life. How often do your bulbs remains dimmed that much?

    Popular recommendations are traceable only to hearsay. Useful recommendations always include numbers. ie Normal voltage for electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. How to separate fears from science: 'reasons why' with perspective (numbers).

    Only numbers answer the OP's original question. Numbers during testing will also determine if internet access speeds are harmed. No numbers (subjective observation) means diminished internet speed only appears to be 100%. Best protection on an incoming internet wire (with minimal speed reduction) was already install for free as explained earlier.
    Last edited by westom; 2013-07-14 at 18:12.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLiNT View Post
    Yes, you definitely want to have a surge protector for ALL the sensitive electronic equipment you have in the house, like TV/stereo/computer.
    The surge protector you decide on need not be the most expensive or highly rated. Mid-range will do just fine.

    The network card is a bit overkill imo, probably not worth the extra money above and beyond what the board comes with.
    Especially if it's a decent "enthusiasts" board.

    In my situation, (I just recently moved into a TT) so I'll need to concern myself with not only surge protection, but also under-voltage protection
    and other monitoring, like ground fault & polarity fault monitoring. Some of the worst things to happen to many appliances is not getting enough voltage
    to them, then they heat up due to the extra current draw. This can dramatically shorten their lifespan, especially air conditioners.

    You'll not likely have to concern yourself with most of the above beyond surge protection, but it is nice to know some of these things.
    Now see..., this is why I come to you guys!-- Oh silly me have always assumed that surge protectors included under-voltage protection as well. Interesting that I have never seen such dedicated products on the market.

    Well, if I did go overkill on the network card, at least I did not lose out a fortune. Got a really good buy, actually. Bright side-- I have instant default backup in case of need. In some ways I feel like my new build is overkill anyway, though not really, if that makes sense.

    Roger that, CLiNT... It is indeed nice to know. BTW, great to see you again!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    Numerous anomalies can exist. Nothing averts all. Many, if not most, are already made irrelevant by what exists inside each electronic appliance. Many will recite fears from hearsay rather than learn what makes anomalies (ie low voltage) irrelevant. Same myths will also recommend protectors that do not even claim to protect from a typically destructive anomalies.

    For example, low voltage is popular with many who ignore numbers, are informed by subjective fears. and have no idea what is routinely accomplished inside all electronic appliances. Normal voltage for all electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. How often is your voltage dropping that much? Then be concerned for appliances actually at risk: ie refrigerator.

    1) If voltage drops that low, then AC utilities disconnect to protect the 'at risk' appliances - motors.
    2) International design standards, long before a PC existed, demand that low voltage is NOT destructive. One standard is so blunt as to put this expression in the entire low voltage section. And in all capital letters: "No Damage Region".
    3) If low voltage causes damage, then power off also causes that damage. Even electronic appliance 'power off' is a long period of low voltage.

    If low voltage exists (incandescent bulbs dimming less than 50% intensity), then a UPS is needed for each refrigerator. Or an electrician is needed ASAP for house wiring that threatens human life. How often do your bulbs remains dimmed that much?

    Popular recommendations are traceable only to hearsay. Useful recommendations always include numbers. ie Normal voltage for electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. How to separate fears from science: 'reasons why' with perspective (numbers).

    Only numbers answer the OP's original question. Numbers during testing will also determine if internet access speeds are harmed. No numbers (subjective observation) means diminished internet speed only appears to be 100% est protection on an incoming internet wire (with minimal speed reduction) was already install for free as explained earlier.
    Thanks, Westom!-- You sure know your stuff, sounds like. My fridges are good, long lasting no problems. I always thought it was their cycling (that and the A/C) that was causing my TV grief. Great info here.
    Last edited by Gerard3; 2013-07-14 at 18:01. Reason: speling

  12. #12
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    Those lines already have superior protection installed for free. Using protectors that virtually do not degrade signals. As required by codes and other standards for longer than PCs have existed. But mostly unknown to consumers.
    "Those lines" are just as susceptible to a lightning strike or catastrophic CME as any others.
    They are only safe if they are protected at the entry point to a dwelling or directly connected to a surge suppressor at the site of usage.

    Cumulative damage to certain appliances over time due to lowered voltage is NOT hearsay, true enough, there are some fail safes built into many appliances, and for many appliances a low voltage situation is irrelevant, but there are also many others that are not, & AC units made specifically for RV's are one of them.

    You're less likely to run into a situation where a home connected to the electrical grid has any issue whatsoever with low voltage.
    Like I said earlier, you're more likely to run into these issues at RV parks living in a TT or RV with many 120V appliances for RV'ers. [FACT]

    Popular recommendations are traceable only to hearsay. Useful recommendations always include numbers.
    So, give us some numbers.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
    Latest Build:
    ASUS X99 Deluxe, Core i7-5960X, Corsair Hydro H100i, Plextor M6e 256GB M.2 SSD, Corsair DOMINATOR Platinum 32GB DDR4@2666, W8.1 64 bit,
    EVGA GTX980, Seasonic PLATINUM-1000W PSU, MountainMods U2-UFO Case, and 7 other internal drives.

  13. #13
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    The only protection IME is an online UPS. This will prevent your computer equipment from major over and under voltage, but not from very close lightening strikes. You need a good offline backup for that.

    cheers, Paul

  14. #14
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    In my opinion, the only protection you need is electric. If there is a surge/spike on the data line, your modem/router will take the hit, not your computer. In my +/- 30 years of experience, my modem/router has NEVER taken a hit, except for one time when I was overseas in 1992: my dialup modem got zapped.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T View Post
    The only protection IME is an online UPS. This will prevent your computer equipment from major over and under voltage, but not from very close lightening strikes.
    All electronic appliances contain protection for 'over voltages' and for every 'under voltage'. No under voltage causes damage. Concern is a voltage well above its 'over voltage' spec number. A number that all electronics have.

    Spec numbers. For 120 volt electronics even before PCs existed, voltages as high as 600 would not cause damage. ATX specs for original Pentium PCs defined even better internal protection up to 1000 volts. Concern is a voltage that exceeds that existing internal protection.

    A UPS does not claim to protect from that type of anomaly. It only claims to provide temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. Many 120 volt UPSes in battery backup mode would output 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Due to superior protection inside all electronics, then a UPS 270 volt spike is well within existing internal protection.

    UPS does claim surge protection. View its numbers. Hundreds of joules mean that protection is near zero. Just enough above zero so that many will 'subjectively' claim 100% protection. Protection inside a UPS is typically less than what is provided by a $10 power strip protector sold in WalMart. However urban myths (hearsay without numbers) routinely claim otherwise.

    Spec numbers exist for every UPS and power strip. Read them. How many joules? Ignore a claim that does not include hard numbers.

    Cumulative damage to electronics due to low voltage is also classic hearsay. No datasheet says low voltage causes damage. The hard numbers he forgets to provide. Datasheets define all low voltages as not harmful.

    Even 1960 digital electronics were not damaged by any low voltage. The 4000 series CMOS digital electronics from RCA: acceptable voltage was anywhere from -0.5 to +20 volts:
    http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data.../108514_DS.pdf
    or http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/data.../108514_DS.pdf

    Every low voltage causes no electronic damage. Voltage could even go slightly negative with no adverse effects. Any layman could read them.

    Later technology SN74HCxx series digital electronics. Acceptable voltage is anywhere from -0.5 to 7 volts:
    http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...ucuasqi1yy.pdf

    No damage from all low voltages. Where is this cumulative damage? It exists only in urban myths promoted by hearsay and wild speculation.

    The fewer who really know this stuff are obvious. They first learn and can cite spec numbers. Numbers show a UPS claims near zero protection. Numbers also define protection, defined by international standards, already exists inside electronic appliances.
    Last edited by westom; 2013-07-16 at 01:53.

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