Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 134
  1. #1
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    10,357
    Thanks
    130
    Thanked 1,162 Times in 1,069 Posts

    Kill your Windows XP systems before they kill you

    An interesting point of view, from Hal Berenson:

    http://hal2020.com/2013/08/06/kill-y...they-kill-you/

    It's even interesting because it provides reasons for some of Microsoft's decisions on security in subsequent systems (Vista and 7).

    P.S.: Please discuss the technical aspects, if you will, and not the "religious" ones (I think the post is exclusively technical, FWIW).
    Rui
    -------
    R4

  2. #2
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California & Arizona
    Posts
    5,481
    Thanks
    130
    Thanked 499 Times in 459 Posts
    No disagreements here.
    Windows XP was a terrific OS for it's day (decade), but that time has since long past.

    Large corporations, even hospitals, would be nuts to continue using it, just "because it works".
    It doesn't work and it NEVER has. But it did show us just how much beans could be spilled over the last decade.

    It's one thing for individual users to continue with it because of stubborn familiarity, but it's quite another
    when it comes to the security of your personal health information, or the massive rise of sophisticated corporate espionage.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Windows 8.1, 64 bit
    Motherboard: DX58SO2*Chipset: X58 Express/Intel ICH10*BIOS: SOX5820J.86A.0888.2012.0129.2203*Processor: Intel Core i7 CPU X 990
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 580*Memory: Corsair 12 GB, 4x3@1600*PSU: Corsair HX1000*Hard drives: REVO X2 160GB*OCZ VERT X3 120GB*5 mechanical storage drives (12 TB) total.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Manning, South Carolina
    Posts
    6,398
    Thanks
    208
    Thanked 833 Times in 766 Posts
    CLiNT,

    Righ On!
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    VBA Rules!

    My Systems: Desktop Specs
    Laptop Specs


  4. #4
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    2,838
    Thanks
    88
    Thanked 347 Times in 312 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by CLiNT View Post
    Windows XP was a terrific OS for it's day (decade), but that time has since long past.

    Large corporations, even hospitals, would be nuts to continue using it, just "because it works".
    It doesn't work and it NEVER has.
    It was terrific but it never worked?


    Quote Originally Posted by CLiNT View Post
    But it did show us just how much beans could be spilled over the last decade.
    I have no clue what that means; could you explain?


    Bruce

  5. #5
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California & Arizona
    Posts
    5,481
    Thanks
    130
    Thanked 499 Times in 459 Posts
    Security flaws, one on top of the other, an endless parade of them.
    What explanation should there be Bruce.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Windows 8.1, 64 bit
    Motherboard: DX58SO2*Chipset: X58 Express/Intel ICH10*BIOS: SOX5820J.86A.0888.2012.0129.2203*Processor: Intel Core i7 CPU X 990
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 580*Memory: Corsair 12 GB, 4x3@1600*PSU: Corsair HX1000*Hard drives: REVO X2 160GB*OCZ VERT X3 120GB*5 mechanical storage drives (12 TB) total.

  6. #6
    Lounger PEYTON PLACE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    SANTA BARBARA CO. CA
    Posts
    45
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    I still use a Dell Dimension 4700 for off-line engineering apps with XP SP3.

    Some of the apps run in DOS (GASP?) 6.

    Also I use a few external equipment control programs, IEEE serial bus (YAWN?)

    Kill it? Sounds rash. considering that these are important functions to me, they work fine, and the Dell is rock-sold stable, quite quick, and very rugged.

    It is usable for "emergency" internet use if the need arises (it does).

    I will allow it to soldier on and eventually die of natutal causes, rather than murder it because it's not the "Latest & Greatest".

    Neither is a 1963 Chevrolet Corvette.

    This is my (obvously more than) two cents' worth re the subject.

    Regards to all, .P.

    <|>
    "IF I CAN'T FIX IT, IT AIN'T BROKE!"

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to PEYTON PLACE For This Useful Post:

    jbuck011 (2013-08-15)

  8. #7
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Polk County, Florida
    Posts
    2,385
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 238 Times in 190 Posts
    No fear here.
    Create a new drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "Let them that don't want it have memories of not gettin' any." "Gratitude is riches and complaint is poverty and the worst I ever had was wonderful." Brother Dave Gardner "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else." Sir Thomas Robert Deware. "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?" Captain Jack Sparrow.
    Unleash Windows

  9. #8
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,131
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 247 Times in 240 Posts
    Ya, it was just a provocative title to drive page views or something. Those who have doubt are migrating or planning to, those who aren't, aren't, and those who are oblivious at this point, are oblivious.

  10. #9
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    302
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    Seems to me for a "technical" article, the author proselytizes a rather "religious" conviction, "I think people are nuts to keep using Windows XP." He leaves out some rather significant variables.

  11. #10
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,131
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 247 Times in 240 Posts
    Ya, he should have explained his stance on that and if it was a direct comparison of things like security features, bare bones style, OS to OS, instead of comprehensive style, layered regimen, he's just another superficial dunderhead anyway. This is the same guy after all who thinks even more combining of the Start and Desktop interfaces is the way to go, was a great promoter of RT and now is trying to figure out just where MS went wrong in that, thinks mostly that a straight up hardware margin play to compete directly with Apple was the culprit, but who said that from before the device was even out, but the price was known? Ya, me. Heck it's still too darn high priced for what it does when Windows users are used to Windows ability and performance, and one last thing about the whole unification thing; they are unified by name only. Very different flavors of OS live in the phone, pure tablet, and laptop/desktop. So its really a play to try and unify through Apps, which seems fine for phones and tablets and for users who want a phone or tablet-like desktop, but desktops have long long since had the ability to crush grand slams all day long compared to anemic apps that don't even have the ability to drag and drop from one to the other.

    Ed Bott's point of view that he admitted to on the last Windows Weekly, is that he tries to make the best of what is there, and I think that's a very good admission to make, his views wouldn't be nearly as criticized knowing that one fact. I haven't looked at it that way but if I did...well then I understand Ed's viewpoint a whole lot better. Hal I'm not so sure about since I don't have any exact declaratives about where he's coming from.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to F.U.N. downtown For This Useful Post:

    bonalba (2013-08-15)

  13. #11
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    302
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.N. downtown View Post
    Ya, he should have explained his stance on that and if it was a direct comparison of things like security features, bare bones style, OS to OS, instead of comprehensive style, layered regimen, he's just another superficial dunderhead anyway. This is the same guy after all who thinks even more combining of the Start and Desktop interfaces is the way to go, was a great promoter of RT and now is trying to figure out just where MS went wrong in that, thinks mostly that a straight up hardware margin play to compete directly with Apple was the culprit, but who said that from before the device was even out, but the price was known? Ya, me. Heck it's still too darn high priced for what it does when Windows users are used to Windows ability and performance, and one last thing about the whole unification thing; they are unified by name only. Very different flavors of OS live in the phone, pure tablet, and laptop/desktop. So its really a play to try and unify through Apps, which seems fine for phones and tablets and for users who want a phone or tablet-like desktop, but desktops have long long since had the ability to crush grand slams all day long compared to anemic apps that don't even have the ability to drag and drop from one to the other.

    Ed Bott's point of view that he admitted to on the last Windows Weekly, is that he tries to make the best of what is there, and I think that's a very good admission to make, his views wouldn't be nearly as criticized knowing that one fact. I haven't looked at it that way but if I did...well then I understand Ed's viewpoint a whole lot better. Hal I'm not so sure about since I don't have any exact declaratives about where he's coming from.
    Go get 'em Killer! "Crush grand slams" is a rather poignant point, F.U.N. XP made for a powerhouse of a workstation. Relative to it's time, mine flew like a bat out of tarnation. And may I add this: Does not XP also help serve to justify the existence and development of virtual machine technology? Moreover, I would argue that XP is still the best platform for doing audio/video restoration. Yes, there are still countless folks who want their analog VHS video, licorice pizzas (LP's), casettes, what have you converted to digital. And remember z old firewire digital tapes?... Well if you have a Canopus ADVC you will want XP. And even the firewire DV camcorder tapes. Or if you are doing MIDI sequencing, you have to have XP to use the preferred Magix Music Studio to do that. The viable applications for XP are still legion. Even in the gaming community, you'll find those who are still fondly and nostalgically attached to some older games.

    In light of what has recently been revealed to me about "embedded BIOS keys," were it me, I would be all too tempted to re-title the article "Kill Your Windows 8 Systems Before They Kill You." Yep, it's the end of the world as we know it. Sorry if it seems like I vented there.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Gerard3 For This Useful Post:

    bonalba (2013-08-15)

  15. #12
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    10,357
    Thanks
    130
    Thanked 1,162 Times in 1,069 Posts
    The article linked another article, quite a bit older, where the technical details behind dumping XP where clearly stated.

    I never cease to find amazing how we all have strong opinions on these issues and other people who do similar are criticized for it... Oh well.
    Rui
    -------
    R4

  16. #13
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    10,357
    Thanks
    130
    Thanked 1,162 Times in 1,069 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard3 View Post
    Go get 'em Killer! "Crush grand slams" is a rather poignant point, F.U.N. XP made for a powerhouse of a workstation. Relative to it's time, mine flew like a bat out of tarnation. And may I add this: Does not XP also help serve to justify the existence and development of virtual machine technology? Moreover, I would argue that XP is still the best platform for doing audio/video restoration. Yes, there are still countless folks who want their analog VHS video, licorice pizzas (LP's), casettes, what have you converted to digital. And remember z old firewire digital tapes?... Well if you have a Canopus ADVC you will want XP. And even the firewire DV camcorder tapes. Or if you are doing MIDI sequencing, you have to have XP to use the preferred Magix Music Studio to do that. The viable applications for XP are still legion. Even in the gaming community, you'll find those who are still fondly and nostalgically attached to some older games.

    In light of what has recently been revealed to me about "embedded BIOS keys," were it me, I would be all too tempted to re-title the article "Kill Your Windows 8 Systems Before They Kill You." Yep, it's the end of the world as we know it. Sorry if it seems like I vented there.
    I am sorry to disappoint you, but XP is not even remotely the best system to do the things you talk about. Not only does it support much less memory than every single other OS that followed, but its support of multicore CPUs that are now the norm is very lame, compared with 7 or 8. So, nothing makes XP more suitable for audio / video editing than 7 or 8, quite the contrary.

    Nostalgia, yes, that is a good a word to describe much of the feelings involved in these topics. Maybe I should just end saying, "ah, those were the days", but I guess I'd rather not feel like Archie Bunker .

    I am sorry to say it, but I think Windows 8 is not really to blame for your issues. We could probably start with the fact that the cause for your issues is still unknown. We should also not confuse Windows 8 with EFI and GPT. These technologies were available before and were used with 7 too. Some people here have been successful doing the exact same thing you tried to do, in much similar circumstances.
    Rui
    -------
    R4

  17. #14
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    302
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ruirib View Post
    The article linked another article, quite a bit older, where the technical details behind dumping XP where clearly stated.

    I never cease to find amazing how we all have strong opinions on these issues and other people who do similar are criticized for it... Oh well.
    Hi, Rui. You're talking about the author of the article being critical, right? That "people are nuts."

  18. #15
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    302
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ruirib View Post
    I am sorry to disappoint you, but XP is not even remotely the best system to do the things you talk about. Not only does it support much less memory than every single other OS that followed, but its support of multicore CPUs that are now the norm is very lame, compared with 7 or 8. So, nothing makes XP more suitable for audio / video editing than 7 or 8, quite the contrary.

    Nostalgia, yes, that is a good a word to describe much of the feelings involved in these topics. Maybe I should just end saying, "ah, those were the days", but I guess I'd rather not feel like Archie Bunker .

    I am sorry to say it, but I think Windows 8 is not really to blame for your issues. We could probably start with the fact that the cause for your issues is still unknown. We should also not confuse Windows 8 with EFI and GPT. These technologies were available before and were used with 7 too. Some people here have been successful doing the exact same thing you tried to do, in much similar circumstances.
    Okay, I respect your tremendously vast technical knowledge about computers, Rui. But I'm talking about functionality here. The nostalgic issue is another matter. To do the things of which I referred do not need all the power and associated hardware requirements of contemporary systems. Just like one does not necessarily need an Intel i7 to surf the web. Now on the other hand, I sure wouldn't attempt HD video editing on an XP. Back to functionality-- Moreover, some of the associated software takes a lot of time and effort to learn, and sometimes the upgrades of those wares introduce another learning curve that's a real challenge to keep up on. And some of the earlier versions of that software work best, most reliably on XP.

    Apart from my own present personal issues, W8 already is and is going to be the disappointment of many. First, one cannot buy a full retail version of it (Even CLiNT, I believe would be unhappy about that). And if I understand correctly, if one's system drive fails (in a manufacturers computer), unless one previously and prudently produced a successful clone, one would be unable to replace with a new drive with a fresh install of another W8 disc and perform a reinstall because of the embedded BIOS key. If one's motherboard is going to be replaced for whatever reason, yep... one has to therefore buy another "system builder 8" copy. I find all that disconcerting, which is a shame, because one of the things I do like about it is it's search feature... much more useful and appropriate than say that of Vista.

    One thing I find confusing... First you question why I questioned my EFI BIOS, now you question why I might question W8. Then you come around and tell me "I won't tell you I told you so," which in fact is saying "I told you so," and when you say "I should have done" that... well, If I'm the student and you're the master, you should have told me in the first place I should have done that.
    Last edited by Gerard3; 2013-08-13 at 13:26.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Gerard3 For This Useful Post:

    bonalba (2013-08-15)

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •