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  1. #1
    New Lounger
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    Thumbs down Abandoning Windows 8

    I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 8. As a 40 year PC user, I can say Windows 8 is the WORST OS Microsoft invented - worse than Vista. I had to reimage my computer three times after not being able to boot following power outage. The tiles worked only for a short time. Frankly, I found them the "tile top" cumbersome and ugly and not at all useful. Windows 8 always took about 40 minutes to restart. I wasted days trying to get Windows 8 to work properly. A few of the Microsoft techs I called frankly admitted that they hadn't loaded Windows 8 because they were getting too many calls.

    I am much happier now that I have reverted back to Windows 7 - the BEST OS Microsoft invented.

  2. #2
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Sorry you had such a time. The Upgrade Install, although it generally works very well, does cause problems with some setups. This si one reason why I suggest the Custom Install. It does sound as though you did get bitten by the Upgrade Bug! I have heard of few Custom Installs that went so very wrong as your Upgrade Install obviously did.

    Simply by adding a simple 3rd party Start Menu replacement, you can make Win 8 look and feel just like Win 7 with the added benefits of the more secure OS.

    The "MS Techs" you called were most likely ALL overseas. Unfortunately MS is just as guilty as most others and outsource their tech support overseas.

    I suspect the power outage did some additional corruption to your system.

    Win 8, when installed correctly, is more stable than my Win 7 Ultimate was. YMMV! Many of the people speaking against Win 8 are doing so simply because of the lack of a Win 7 Style Start Menu and the need to take one extra step to get to the Desktop rather than the Win 8 Style Start Screen. The above mentioned app solves both of these problems.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  3. #3
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Life has more interesting things on offer than fighting an OS that just doesn't work for you or your computer, Joe. Enjoy W7 and your free time

  4. #4
    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
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    I have one (main) computer that I built for myself in 2005.
    Ever since then, Windows XP-Pro-SP3 has been my OS of choice, but....

    I do like putzing around with new OS's. To date I have Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1, all on separate hard drives. There are just TOO many problems, trying to run two different OS's on the same drive.

    It's possible, for one OS to mess around with the other OS and if one crashes bad enough, it can take down the entire drive.

    If one of my secondary OS's gets futzed up, I just wipe the drive, reload the OS and life goes on unfettered.

    On the Windows 8 forum, for months we suggested to every new user of Windows 8 that they NOT use the upgrade version, but do a Clean Install on either a clean-blank hard drive or partition.
    And, that they NOT overwrite their main OS with the Beta version of Win-8.
    Those who listened, had very few problems, those who didn't were right back with all sorts of complaints.

    Last edited by bbearren; 2013-08-20 at 17:02. Reason: deleted derogatory comment
    Experience is truly the best teacher.

    Backup! Backup! Backup! GHOST Rocks!

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  6. #5
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    I currently have two laptops dual booting, each laptop has only a single drive, both have multiple partitions. I dual boot XP and Windows 7 Ultimate on a Dell Latitude D800, and Windows 7 Ultimate/Windows 8 Pro on a Dell Latitude E5420.

    I've had no issues with either laptop. The D800 has been dual booting a few years.

    Upgrades over existing installations have never been a cause for concern nor resulted in problems for me, either. It's all to do with keeping things in order, doing routine maintenance, and following a comprehensive backup routine.

    I had a fine running system that began as Windows 95 OSR2, upgraded to Windows 98, upgraded to Windows 2000 Professional, upgraded to Windows XP Professional, with an abundance of hardware upgrades thrown in along the way. It ran just fine; quick and efficient. Unfortunately, it couldn't survive a house fire (but my backups did).
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

  7. #6
    Gold Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbearren View Post
    [FONT=Georgia][SIZE=3] Windows 7 Ultimate/Windows 8 Pro on a Dell Latitude E5420.

    I've had no issues with either laptop. The D800 has been dual booting a few years.
    "B"

    Hello.. The OP is correct . You have to keep in mind that everyone is not as PC competent as the MOD's or the "Geeks" that troll the various lounges. If you have to employ "tools" to make windows 8 behave like window 7 ...cause you can't stand Windows 8 as is ... Then there is a problem with windows 8... Proving that you can make "8" behave like "7" ..."cause" you know how...makes my point ... The new OEM UFEI \GPT Secure boot machines are a portent of MS's future plans for us "Joe 6 pack & Sally Housewife " PC users...not good .. for me the screen shot says it all Regards Fred
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    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  8. #7
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Almost every change I have made in Win 8 I also made in Win 7. This is one of the strengths of Windows, the ability to customize things to your liking. I also made most of these changes in ancient times when I used XP, even at work. I like my Windows to look a certain way and that's that!

    See even I like my things the way I like them. I'm as resistant to change as anyone. This is the crux of the situation. We humans tend to be resistant to change, especially as we age less than gracefully.

    But ain't it grand that we can change Windows to our liking. And some of these changes are so simple. Yes MS is moving toward a Win 8 style environment, one that will work on various types of devices. We are resistant to these changes, but because we can change things, we can make Win 8 more to our liking. I do not see anything wrong with that approach.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  9. #8
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Fred, I don't disagree with a thing you've said. I can only say that they don't necessarily apply to me. I'm the guy that "Joe 6 pack & Sally Housewife" ask to come straighten out their PC.

    And when I do, I just put it back the way it was; I don't do any customizations or alterations to the OS, just return it to what they're used to working with. I uninstall the two or three extra AV's they've installed, uninstall a dozen or so browser toolbars, two or three "Speed Up My PC" utilities, run an extended Cleanmgr.exe on it, and defrag the drive. They feed me a nice snack, and everyone is happy. I don't try to impose my way of doing things on anyone, but I do help people who want to try it themselves.

    What I do for myself, on the other hand, is different. Satrow refers to "fighting an OS", but that's not the way I look at it. I subdue an OS, and make it my own, simply because that's something I enjoy doing. I enjoy puzzles and intricate systems, and figuring out how they do what they do, and in the case of systems, how they can be made more efficient and productive.

    The macro-architecture of Windows (any NT-based version) is geared toward support, not efficiency; keeping everyone in the same box eliminates lots of variables and simplifies support. Since I depend on myself primarily for support, I re-arrange Windows for efficiency. A very interesting side effect of this improved efficiency is that the need for support diminishes significantly.

    As for UEFI/GPT, my next PC will be DIY, and I'll use an Intel board. I've found Intel to be much more proficient in their implementation of standards. A new board from Intel will have Secure Boot as an option, but its default state will be disabled. The rest is not that difficult to work with, and until Windows comes up with a version that has progressed beyond the NT kernel, I'm not intimidated by the OS, either. And if/when they do move beyond NT, well, that's a new puzzle. I like puzzles.
    Last edited by bbearren; 2013-08-21 at 09:06.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

  10. #9
    Gold Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbearren View Post
    [FONT=Georgia][SIZE=3]Fred, I don't disagree with a thing you've said. I can only say that they don't necessarily apply to me. I'm the guy that "Joe 6 pack & Sally Housewife" ask to come straighten out their PC.


    As for UEFI/GPT, my next PC will be DIY, and I'll use an Intel board. .
    "B",

    Hello.. My comments are directed to those who have "Tweaked" Windows 8 ...so they say... " I can hardly tell when I'm on "8", or "7" or something to that effect... If the original "8" is soooo wonderful why then don't ya-all just run it the way it came? You guys say "cause" i like to adjust it to my needs...etc." Then the Blah , Blah ,starts "It's so much more Secure ...Faster , Better , comes with a life size photo of Bill Gates" The UEFI\GPT\Secure Boot\ SLIC3.0... has just begun to come out of the shadows... and when fully implemented ...it will be a dark day for PC enthusiasts.. Unless like you're planning, and i have done ...a "DIY" PC \Mobo , most will not be able to escape , as OEM's seem to be on-board with this direction...My advice to anyone who is considering purchasing a new PC \Notebook etc.....Get it with Windows 7-64 Pro.( no secure boot) There still out there on line...haven't seen any in the Big Boxes... This way YOU will have the ability whether you want to upgrade or downgrade to anything From XP to 8...and also run any Open source, Freeware, etc. at boot time that you want...What a thought Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  11. #10
    Silver Lounger
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    No doubt, the OP did not have a good experience and reacted strongly, but for those of us who have properly vetted the subject, and who don't have a obligation to best business practices, change doesn't have a thing to do with it. In fact I was hoping I could finally unify Windows under one network, something that hasn't passed the sniff test (in reality, intellectual analysis) since Vista was released (though I was all XP again before 7 came out in 2009). Too many reasons to get into why that is of course but customization is one, it is no longer customization when you are adding things that are now entirely missing from the OS, that is fixing an OS first so that one may then customize it. Which still wouldn't be bad if the changes were synergistic, or at least left what was already there as efficiently manageable and useful as it was. They are most definitely not for a lot of folks, or start menus would not be in such hot demand.
    The founder of Stardock was on Windows Weekly the week before last and to quote Brad Wardell, "Windows 8 was a gift from God." I'm sure he meant that from a business standpoint and not a theological one. Also, the host of that show, everyone knows Leo Laporte right? He changes about as fast as water runs downhill, buys practically every phone and tablet and fancy HDTV and Apple product and tons of other "new idea" gadgets like Google Glasses that are marketed. Loves Windows 7, best OS ever he says. He ostensibly gave Win 8 a fair shot for many months with as many in place customizations he could make. His quote from the same show, "thanks to Start8, I can tolerate Windows 8." He wasn't just giving a platitude to Brad.
    So I would appreciate it if you would not lump us all into the resistant to change holding pen, the human experience is as much filled with the overwhelming desire for change and striding for change as it is with preservation of comfortable surroundings and experiences. This instance is one of the most tame varieties of change imaginable because it's completely optional and affords the luxury of intellectual analysis, and "resistance" to change has to pass that test, not the reverse.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Plain Fred View Post
    The new OEM UFEI \GPT Secure boot machines are a portent of MS's future plans for us
    MANDATORY: Enable/Disable Secure Boot.A physically present user must be allowed to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup
    Windows Hardware Certification requirements for Windows 8 Certified Systems

    Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceR View Post
    MANDATORY: Enable/Disable Secure Boot.A physically present user must be allowed to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup
    Windows Hardware Certification requirements for Windows 8 Certified Systems

    Bruce
    Why do you choose to murky the picture with facts, Bruce? Party spoiler .
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  14. #13
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceR View Post
    MANDATORY: Enable/Disable Secure Boot.A physically present user must be allowed to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup
    Windows Hardware Certification requirements for Windows 8 Certified Systems

    Bruce
    Note that the ability to disable Secure Boot does not require that Windows 8 be able to boot with Secure Boot disabled. There is a requirement for a working Windows RE image to boot in the event of Secure Boot failures, but no requirement for the Windows 8 OS to boot with Secure Boot disabled is stated specifically.

    I have personal experience with an hp laptop (owned by a friend) that states emphatically (when booted into UEFI setup) that Secure Boot can be disabled, but Windows will not boot if it is.

    How the OEM implements Secure Boot is something that one must explore before purchasing a new PC if one has intentions of using a Windows 8 OEM PC to dual boot.

    Also, at present there is only one company authorized to issue certified UEFI Secure Boot keys. That company is Microsoft.
    Last edited by bbearren; 2013-08-21 at 12:39. Reason: clarity
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbearren View Post
    How the OEM implements Secure Boot is something that one must explore before purchasing a new PC if one has intentions of using a Windows 8 OEM PC to dual boot
    I agree with you. If disabling Secure Boot is relevant for a user, some care will be needed to find which OEMs handle it properly. IMO, makes no sense at all to disable secure boot and finding the computer cannot boot. Makes the disabling moot.
    Rui
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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbearren View Post
    Note that the ability to disable Secure Boot does not require that Windows 8 be able to boot with Secure Boot disabled. There is a requirement for a working Windows RE image to boot in the event of Secure Boot failures, but no requirement for the Windows 8 OS to boot with Secure Boot disabled is stated specifically.

    I have personal experience with an hp laptop (owned by a friend) that states emphatically (when booted into UEFI setup) that Secure Boot can be disabled, but Windows will not boot if it is.

    How the OEM implements Secure Boot is something that one must explore before purchasing a new PC if one has intentions of using a Windows 8 OEM PC to dual boot.

    Also, at present there is only one company authorized to issue certified UEFI Secure Boot keys. That company is Microsoft.
    Is any of this a problem now that Linux has had a solution for 9 months?

    All Linux Distributions Get the Secure Boot Bootloader

    Secure boot loader now available to allow Linux to work on Windows 8 PCs

    Bruce

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