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  1. #1
    3 Star Lounger Backspacer's Avatar
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    Time to do full backup / incremental

    I am going to be upgrading one of our systems to an SSD. There's a thread about it in the hardware forum. It's an Optiplex 790 USFF. The current HDD is a 7200 RPM one with about 150Gb on it (after I pare it down some) and I would like to do a backup before I start the upgrade. The only thing I've got to back it up to is another system, an older HP that probably has a 5400 RPM drive, but with lots of room on it. They are both on a fast LAN, but I suppose the HP probably only has a 100Gb/s Ethernet card in it.

    I will be driving almost a hundred miles, arriving sometime just before we close, and doing everything before we open the next morning. And I would really like not to be up ALL night doing it! So I need to get a guess at how long it will take to do the backup before I get started. If it's an hour, then I'll just do it that evening. If I can expect it to take more than two hours I will probably do it the previous day and do an incremental on the day of the upgrade.

    So can anyone offer even just a ballpark, wild-a** guess at how long it might take for a full backup or image to be made? One hour? More? All night?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    What software are you using?
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
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    3 Star Lounger Backspacer's Avatar
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    Uh, silly me ... Probably Macrium Reflect Pro. I need to install a good backup utility and start using it, anyway. If that isn't the best choice I am open to suggestions.

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    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    The more data you have to image the longer it takes. 30GB for me takes approx. 20 min.
    It'll take nearly the same time to restore, maybe a tad bit longer.
    ...And that's using Macrium Reflect Pro.
    It makes good sense to separate as much data out of the operating system drive as possible, and use another drive dedicated
    to data storage, including image restore files.

    And don't forget to TEST any new image you create WITH THE Macrium BOOTABLE DISK you just made by performing a restore directly from the boot disk.
    Always MAKE TIME for things that are important.
    Last edited by CLiNT; 2013-08-21 at 23:13.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
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  5. #5
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    Actual maximum speed on a 100Mb/s NIC is just under 10 megabytes per second (I get 9.8) so take a USB drive if it's a 100 megabit NIC (older HPs usually are). Otherwise it'll be about 100 seconds per gig to backup over the network...equals approximately just over 4 hours for 150 gigs of data once the backup actually starts. Level of compression and assigning high priority to the process will reduce that time but I'm not sure how much; an hour maybe?

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    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I also found that backing up over the network was just too slow for me and my impatient attitude. I have a Seagate 1 TB ext. USB drive which holds many Images as well as my File History backups. Using Acronis True Image 2013, my restores take about 10 minutes whereas the creation takes somewhat longer. I always boot to the Acronis Boot disk to either create or restore. Just a habit I got into. I could create an Image from within Windows, but just feel more comfortable doing it outside the Windows environment.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
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    If you are migrating to an SSD, and time is a concern, why will you image the current disk first? Why not just clone it to the SSD? Cloning the disk won't put it at risk.

    A 100 Mbit/s network will be too slow for your backup, anyway.
    Rui
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  8. #8
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    I use Image for Windows from TeraByte. I have a Gigabit Ethernet Network. Backups to my 3TB NAS (which supports Gigabit) are not noticeably different in time from backups to a local 1TB drive on my desktop. A 100MBS Ethernet Network would definitely be noticeable.

    I'm with Rui; a direct clone would not jeopardize the drive, and be much quicker.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspacer View Post
    The current HDD is a 7200 RPM one with about 150Gb on it (after I pare it down some) and I would like to do a backup before I start the upgrade. The only thing I've got to back it up to is another system, an older HP that probably has a 5400 RPM drive,

    So can anyone offer even just a ballpark, wild-a** guess at how long it might take for a full backup or image to be made? One hour? More? All night?
    Backspacer,

    Hello I'll take a "WAG" at it. With Macrium Pro, my guess would be over 2 hours for the 150GB .. Especially using a 5400 RPM HD as your "Target"..As previously stated make sure that you have a working "Recovery disk" ..and i would add the Macrium program to the "Recovery Boot Menu Option" as well Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  10. #10
    3 Star Lounger Backspacer's Avatar
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    So I guess doing the backup on the night of the upgrade is out. Too much time involved.

    There are two main reasons I wanted to do it this way. First, and foremost, I do plan to clone the old HDD onto the new SSD as my upgrade method. But then I am going to remove the old drive and replace it with the new one because the system only holds one drive. If anything bad happens to the old drive in the process and then I find that something went wrong with the clone or the new SSD doesn't work, then I have a dead system. That is an unacceptable outcome. This is not a home computer and it has to work when I am done. If the worst does happen, I have the 5400 RPM drive from my wife's old laptop which I could install, recover the backup to and limp along until there is a fix for my disaster. What I've found is that if I am well prepared, nothing will go wrong, but if I am not, something will rear up and bite me in the butt.

    The second reason is that I really need to get in the habit of doing a regular backup of this system (and my others) and I figured if I get the right backup software it will carry across to the new drive with the rest of the clone and I'll already have it working and ready to go as soon as the system is up and running again. There is no way I am going to put my business backups in some vaporous "cloud" somewhere for anyone to get to. Later this fall I will be building a new desktop and moving my old one to the shop to replace the current one that I'm backing up to. It has enough disk capacity, turning at 10000RPM and a fast enough Ethernet port so I can backup the other three systems to it along with a regular differential.

    Since that will take too long, what about my second option which is to install the backup software and do a full backup overnight sometime before the SSD upgrade and then set it up to do differentials from then on? That way my backup solution would already be fully up and working, too.

    But now that leads me to another question: My backup plan was to use Macrium Reflect Pro and do an "image" to the other computer and then do a differential backup at some regular interval. But will this image and the incremental reside as files within the file structure of the other computer or will I need to create a partition to hold the image?

    And what is a good "regular" interval for the differential?

    I chose Macrium Reflect Pro because I have used the free version and it seems to be pretty popular here. If a different backup software would be more appropriate for my needs, I'm open to suggestions.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    But now that leads me to another question: My backup plan was to use Macrium Reflect Pro and do an "image" to the other computer and then do a differential backup at some regular interval. But will this image and the incremental reside as files within the file structure of the other computer or will I need to create a partition to hold the image?
    No need for a separate partition. I put mine in a folder that is labeled.
    Make sure you name the image properly so that when your using the bootdisk to find
    the image later on that it's not a hassle to look for.
    It should be in a higher folder and NOT buried in multiple layers of subfolders.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
    Latest Build:
    ASUS X99 Deluxe, Core i7-5960X, Corsair Hydro H100i, Plextor M6e 256GB M.2 SSD, Corsair DOMINATOR Platinum 32GB DDR4@2666, W8.1 64 bit,
    EVGA GTX980, Seasonic PLATINUM-1000W PSU, MountainMods U2-UFO Case, and 7 other internal drives.

  12. #12
    Gold Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspacer View Post
    So I guess doing the backup on the night of the upgrade is out. Too much time involved.

    I'm open to suggestions.
    Backspacer,

    Hello.... Macrium Reflect can "Shut Down" the PC after it has finished with the Full Image Backup ... Set Macrium up to... how, when, and where ...and "Let-Er-Rip" ... Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  13. #13
    3 Star Lounger Backspacer's Avatar
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    Sorry, I wasn't clear. The systems run all night, every night. What I meant was that if it will take "hours" to do the backup that leaves me with no time to clone to the SSD and then swap it out and then troubleshoot whatever inevitable problems will arise. Earlier I made the remark that the system needs to be running by opening time the next morning, but I am too old and worn out to stay up all night doing the work. :-)

    I think I've settled on the following:
    1. Install Macrium Reflect Pro
    2. Image the HDD to a file on that other system. This will run at night on a night prior to the SSD upgrade.
    3. Also set it up to do a differential backup every night until I do the SSD upgrade. This will give me a few days to be sure that it is working, though I won't actually test to see if I can recover.
    4. Plug the SSD drive into the USB port using an adapter I have purchased.
    5. Use Intel's software to clone my HDD onto my Intel SSD. (Using their software seems the safest route.)
    6. Swap the old HDD for the new SSD.
    7. Boot up and cross fingers.

  14. #14
    3 Star Lounger Backspacer's Avatar
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    Following up here.
    I installed Macrium Reflect Pro on that system. I used remote desktop to install it and start the run. I was impressed at how easy it was to do a drive image. I already had the destination directory setup on the other computer (top level, per CLiNT.) So it was pretty much a matter of finding and clicking the image button, defining the destination directory, agreeing to the recommendations, and go.

    This does raise one question. Macrium found what appears to be three partitions on my drive. (Drive 1) I think the first one was a boot partition, the second was for system restore, and the third was the C: drive. All were selected to backup and I left it that way. The first two partitions were pretty small, so I figured it wouldn't matter. I thought about deselecting the restore partition, but then realized that the OS would expect it to be there, so I included it as well. Was that the correct decision, assuming that the ultimate use for this backup would be a full recovery in the event that I have to start from a blank HDD or SSD?

    Initially the backup was very slow - predicted times of over a day. I exited from Remote Desktop and it got a bit better. (I knew that because I would log in occasionally to check its progress and then log back out again, closing RD every time.) But it still took almost 18 hours to image the 180Gb of data onto the other system. About the last hour of that was pretty painful as we really needed the system. That is almost a magnitude longer than the couple of hours predicted earlier in this thread. I think Just Plain Fred's WAG was realistic. I think something else is wrong with this system.

    But this is interesting. I have been trying to figure out and fix whatever is slowing down this system and this might just be another data point. I am going to be doing some network throughput testing to see if a bottleneck has appeared in our network. I know it is all supposed to be 1Gb capable, except for that one 100Mb system. But that doesn't mean that it actually is.

    Tonight, when I can get back on the system, I am going to setup a regular differential backup and test it. If it works, then I will post that and be done with this thread.

  15. #15
    Silver Lounger
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    JPF's WAG was based on hard drive rotation speed; so heavy on the WA mine was based on network speed but you were stepped down for some reason. I typically image locally and then copy that to a network location; perhaps that would have been speedier and you could tell right away then if it's due entirely to network bottleneck or the program taking it's S.A.T. over a network.
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