Results 1 to 9 of 9
Thread: Amplitude of SINE curve

20130917, 11:03 #1
 Join Date
 Jan 2001
 Location
 La Jolla,CA
 Posts
 1,055
 Thanks
 11
 Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts
Amplitude of SINE curve
This is not really a puzzle per se, but a puzzle of mine needing some clarification.
I know that given y = SIN(x), the amplitude of the SINE curve is 1. I also know that y=a SIN(x) has an amplitude of a [so, y = 3 SIN(x) has an amplitude of 3].
What is the amplitude of: y = (x^2) SIN(x) ???
Graphing this, the curve appears to be all over the place because of the x^2. So, I'm puzzled as to how one would actually determine where the amplitude (on the yaxis) is FIRST reached on the xaxis.
Can someone clarify this? I can't find my old dusty trig book.

Subscribe to our Windows Secrets Newsletter  It's Free!
Get our unique weekly Newsletter with tips and techniques, how to's and critical updates on Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows XP, Firefox, Internet Explorer, Google, etc. Join our 480,000 subscribers!
+ Get this BONUS — free!
Get the most of Excel! Learn about new features, basics of creating a new spreadsheet and using the infamous Ribbon in the first chapter of Excel 2013: The Missing Manual  Subscribe and download Chapter 1 for free!

20130917, 11:36 #2
 Join Date
 Dec 2009
 Location
 USA
 Posts
 2,137
 Thanks
 202
 Thanked 206 Times in 198 Posts
What's Trig?
It's been a LONG time since I've done anything like the above. Back in the day, I could have solve this in my sleep.

20130917, 11:51 #3
 Join Date
 Jan 2001
 Location
 La Jolla,CA
 Posts
 1,055
 Thanks
 11
 Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts
I used to be able to do this easily also...groan! Maybe a young Maud will step in or someone else that's young or youthful and awake.

20130917, 11:59 #4
 Join Date
 Dec 2009
 Location
 USA
 Posts
 2,137
 Thanks
 202
 Thanked 206 Times in 198 Posts
I'm surprised Maud hasn't already chimed in!

20130917, 14:15 #5
 Join Date
 Jan 2001
 Location
 La Jolla,CA
 Posts
 1,055
 Thanks
 11
 Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts
I suspect Maud is trying to find a trig book.

The Following User Says Thank You to kweaver For This Useful Post:
mrjimphelps (20130917)

20130917, 19:38 #6
 Join Date
 Mar 2010
 Location
 USA
 Posts
 240
 Thanks
 44
 Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts
It is easier to explain if xaxis is time, t.
So, SIN(t) is just a specific time dependent function, which repeats itself every 2pi interval. (2pi=2x3.14159=6.2832). SIN(t) peaks at the time tick of 0.5pi (0.5pi=1.5708).
The magnitude of the generic SIN(t) is normalized to 1. Or A=1 in A*SIN(t).
The Amplitude A can also be time dependent, a function of time, f(t), such as your
y = (x^2) SIN(x), here rewritten as time dependent, to
y = t^2 SIN(t).
Think of it as a sine wave moving with time. Then a person also adjusts the amplitude knob based on time on his watch.
To know the y wave/function, set t=0, find y. Set x=0.2, find y. And so on. Plot the points and you'll see the y waveform.
By just looking at y=t^2 SIN(t), you can estimate that y is very small if t is smaller than 1. (Squaring a lessthan1 number makes it even smaller). When t is above 1, squaring a greaterthan1 number makes it bigger, and bigger even faster when t is getting much bigger than 1.
That is, initially y is nearly inert near zero. When t approaches t=1 and t>1, it starts to grow, because of the squaring of a number greatthan1.
Because the amplitude is squared, the amplitude is always positive (e.g. 1*1=1). Time t can be negative but the amplitude is always positive.
Just glancing at the equation, seems y is symmetrical around the Yaxis at x=zero. That is, if folded along Yaxis at x=0 it shows Y is symmetrical. Or, Y is same on both positive and negative xaxis.
An equation simply describes a system's behavior. It does not have starts and ends (unless specified). So, time, t, can be negative in the past, or positive into the future. It is interesting to note that physics equations also have this behavior. That is, unless specified, the equation is valid in the past, and future, as well! That is why time travel could be possible.
To find the system response, in your example, simply choose a specified time. The equation will give you the correct value for y. Finding many points and you can plot them as graph, and visualize the behavior of y.

20130917, 22:30 #7
 Join Date
 Jan 2001
 Location
 La Jolla,CA
 Posts
 1,055
 Thanks
 11
 Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts
What I think is that since there is an x^2 in front of the sin(x) function, the result has a maximum that's WAAAY up there on the yaxis. The max is dependent on the x^2 I think.
I don't think this is symmetrical about the yaxis (see attached).
graph.jpgLast edited by kweaver; 20130917 at 22:34.

20130917, 23:21 #8
 Join Date
 Mar 2010
 Location
 USA
 Posts
 240
 Thanks
 44
 Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts
My bad.
I forgot that sine fct itself can go negative itself as well. If it were [sin(t)]^2 it would be always positive. So, it should not be symmetrical. It goes to show plotting graph is far better than just observing/guessing.
By looking at your graph, it seems a flipped image (flip one side vertically).

20130917, 23:44 #9
 Join Date
 Mar 2010
 Location
 USA
 Posts
 240
 Thanks
 44
 Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts
The equation is a blowup function. It'll grow and grow as x increases. Yes, the amplitude value (being squared) dominates after x>1.
There is no one single 'maxima' in this function. As x grows, higher and higher peak values are generated, one after the next.
To find all the maximas, take the derivatives of the function and set the derivative to zero.