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  1. #1
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    Word 2003 Document & Windows 7 Pro

    Hello all,

    I recently replaced a desktop machine for a client. She was using Windows XP Pro and Office 2003.

    I installed a new Dell OptiPlex 9020 AIO with Windows 7 Pro as the OS.

    Now, when she opens an existing word document the formatting appears to be way off. What used to be a one page document now spills on to a second page. The spacing is all wrong as well.

    She cannot modify this document because it is just fine for others in the office who are still running Windows XP and Office 2003. Furthermore, most of the Word and Excel documents are being used / shared by everyone. I verified the Office 2003 settings on all machines to make sure that they were not different in any way.

    I have attached the document in question and a screen capture of what it should look like. I should add that I also tried to open said document in Word 2013 and had the same result.


    I am basically stumped. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you

    Peter
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    Last edited by peterbata; 2013-11-12 at 19:38.

  2. #2
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    The line spacing in the whole document appears to be about 18 pt, although the Normal style has the spacing set to Single and most of the text is in 12 pt font size. This seems to have something to do with the choice of Tunga as the font for the style. I've never seen that font used for anything before, but it does have a very large built-in line spacing.

    The easiest way to get back the appearance you want is to modify the Normal style in the document; in the Paragraph dialog, set the line spacing to Exactly 15 pt. (Any smaller spacing makes the underscores disappear; any larger and the form expands to a second page.) For the future, I'd recommend replacing the Tunga font with something more conventional, such as Arial or Tahoma.

  3. #3
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    Thank you so much for the prompt reply. Why is it then that others accessing the very same file when using Win XP see the document as it should be. Is it possible that the "Tunga" font that you refer to is not installed in Windows 7

    I am not quite sure how to accomplish this:

    modify the Normal style in the document; in the Paragraph dialog, set the line spacing to Exactly 15 pt

    Your time and assistance is greatly appreciated.

    Peter
    Last edited by peterbata; 2013-11-12 at 22:00.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Peter,

    Tunga is installed on my Windows 8.1 Pro 64 bit machine w/Office 2010 SP-2 and the document shows as 2 pages for me. The document does have a reference to normal so my guess is that My normal is not the same as your normal and probably not the normal on the machines where it is displaying correctly. You might try copying the normal.dot file from one of the machines where it works correctly to the machine in question and see if that solves the problem. Of course you want to backup the normal.dot file on the problem machine first. HTH
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

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    Thank you so much for the valuable input RetiredGeek. I plan on going by the clients' office in the not too distant future. I will most definitely give your suggestion a try. I suppose my visit will take place sooner than later as the Win 7 user has to share an XP machine with a co-worker when working on most of her Word documents.

    Note: I just checked and my laptop running Win 7 Pro and Office 2013 also has Tunga font installed and displays the document on two pages as well. On the other hand, my desktop running Win XP and Office 2003 displays it properly
    Last edited by peterbata; 2013-11-12 at 22:11.

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    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Peter,

    So you can try it right there at home and see if it fixes the problem!
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

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  7. #7
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    Absolutely right! What was I thinking? It must be getting late.

  8. #8
    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
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    Do NOT simply copy normal.dot onto the new machine. Word 2013 is not going to be happy with a normal template from Word 2003.

    Instead, give the normal template a different name like "oldforms.dot." Copy that to the new computer and attach the document to that template with the box checked to update styles from template. Then, immediately, go back to the dialog for attaching a template and uncheck that box. If the problem is fixed, save the document.

    At that point, try attaching it to normal again. If that does not cause problems, leave it attached to normal.

    If this fixed things, see What happens when I send my document to someone else?

    Another possibility would be a different printer driver (even if for the same printer, with a different OS you get different printer drivers.

    The document opens as two pages in Word 2010, Word 97, Word 2003, and Word 2007 on my machine. I am amazed that your client can get any work out! I would suggest that they check out every document they have that they use as templates and (1) reformat the document on a machine that shows these problems and save them as templates rather than documents. See the next paragraph.

    BTW, this document is horribly formatted. I've seen worse examples, but they have been few. Things that are not headings are formatted in heading styles, blank paragraphs are used for spacing as are tabs and spaces. These are techniques I would expect to see on something typed by a grandmother given a computer for Christmas writing a note to someone. It is not the kind of formatting that should go into any document that is going to be used and re-used.

    I would urge reading the pages that start at Basic Concepts of Microsoft Word. Word is not a typewriter. No word processing program is. This was produced by someone who thinks of it as a typewriter.

    Turn on display of non-printing formatting characters.

    Go onto every computer and turn off virtually all of the AutoFormat as You Type options in AutoCorrect options. Show the people using the computer what you are doing. These options can be useful, but only for people who understand them. Most people spend an inordinate amount of time fighting against them and being mad at their computers.

    Teach the people producing documents for reuse on how Styles work in Word! Understanding Styles in Word

    Another alternative solution for documents like this which are to be filled in by hand rather than typed in Word would be to convert them to pdf files. Then the vagaries of Word need not be of concern.
    Last edited by Charles Kenyon; 2013-11-12 at 23:24.
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

  9. #9
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    Thank you for sharing all of that great information with me / us Mr. Kenyon. Obviously, I along with Anna (my client) have a lot of reading and learning to do. Most, if not all of the Word and Excel documents in use date back to well before 2007. If I cannot resolve the issue for all of her documents I am actually considering setting up a second XP machine for anything Office 2003 related. They absolutely do not want me "Rocking the Boat" so-to-speak. Thank you again and have a wonderful day. Peter

  10. #10
    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
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    You are welcome. Hope thinks work out well.

    As far as I can tell, given that the document opens as two pages in Word 97, the problem has to do with the formatting of the styles in the underlying template rather than any changes in Word or Windows.
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

  11. #11
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    Spent some time at my clients' today. I took along a copy of normal.dot from Anna's old Win XP / Office 2003 machine which I have with me here at the office. Actually, I took along everything that had a .dot extension just in case. I also copied normal.dot from her co-workers Win XP / Office 2003 in the adjacent office (said document opens up just fine on this machine).

    I renamed normal.dot as had been suggested and copied it in the appropriate template folder c:\Users\anna\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Templates. Of course I rename the original to something like normal_org.dot

    I then opened the problem document went to Tools\Template and Add-ins selected normal_new.dot, checked Automatically update document styles hit OK.

    Nothing changed. The document still spills over on to two pages. I really have to find a solution because there is no way that my client is going to modify hundreds of documents. Thank you all again for trying. I really do appreciate it. My quest continues I'm afraid

  12. #12
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    Tunga has been applied as direct formatting to almost of this document. (The first paragraph is Century School Book.) The intended font (according to the styles) appears to be Arial. If you select the entire document (Ctrl-A) and choose Arial font, the document returns to a single page. Charles is correct: this document is horribly formatted. Selecting the entire document and then applying a font is really not a standard approach to formatting, but it does un-do the direct formatting that messed things up in the first place.

  13. #13
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    Thank you Richard. Of course, you are correct about selecting the entire document and choosing Arial. That was the very first thing that I did. Unfortunately, the client has no plans on doing that to, as I said earlier, the hundreds or thousands of documents that she and her co-workers have been using since at least 2009. It also leads me to thinking about what is going to happen when I move the others to Windows 7. Which is inevitable as Windows XP is reaching EOL and so are their 5 year old workstations.

    Re-formatting the existing documents may not be an option, instead a reality. For the time being I am seriously considering setting up XP as a VM on Anna's machine. It's not pretty, but it sure is going to make my, and her life easier for the time being.

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    I opened this in a VM with WinXP and Word 2003. It opened with 2 pages, but not as much text on page 2 as when opened in Win 7 / Word 2010.

    This font, Tunga, is described as follows: Tunga™ is an OpenType font for the Indic script Kannada. It is based on Unicode, contains TrueType outlines and was designed by Raghunath Joshi (Type Director) and Vinay Saynekar for use as a UI font. Copyright ™ 2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Character Set: Latin-1, Kannada.

    It seems that it's not designed as an English language (Roman alphabet) font. Have your checked your language/region settings on the PC? Maybe that is influencing that way the font is displayed. Check the version of the font (ttf file) to see if they are the same on the XP and Win 7 systems. Tunga is also meant as a user interface font, not a font for word processing documents.

    Given the state of this document, I would not continue editing it or working with it as it is. Clearly there are serious formatting problems, and they will only get worse as the document is edited.

  15. #15
    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
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    Ultimately, someone is going to have to bite the bullet.

    That means saving the existing documents in pdf format on a machine where they properly appear and using them as pdf. Those will print out fine on any machine.

    Those that need to be reused in Word should be recreated as new templates with no copying other than by using Paste Special and plain text. Any formatting should be done using Styles. All of the AutoFormat As You Type options on the machine creating these should be turned off!

    Attempts to edit these in Word, regardless of the operating system or version of Word are spitting into the wind. It won't be pretty.
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

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