Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 37
  1. #1
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    703
    Thanks
    256
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    How to separate OS and data

    Hi Loungers,
    My new Windows 8 desktop is now up and running with all my programmes installed, apart from the scanner which is not compatible with W8. All the data has been backed up to DVD from the W8 laptop that Iíve been using since the death of the old PC, ready to be added to the new machine.

    However, Iíve been persuaded that itís a good idea to separate the OS and programmes from the data for ease of imaging and to allow the addition of a SSD for the OS if I decide to do so later, even though impressed by the speed of the new PC. There is the question of how to go about it.

    Software will be needed to partition the hard drive, and suggestions of what to use would be welcomed. I used a partition manager some years ago, and it was quite intuitive, but its name eludes me.

    Then there is the question of whether one just installs the data on the new partition or other adjustments need to be made. The new libraries in W8 are something of a puzzle to me. When I transferred my pictures to the laptop some of them ended up in the wrong folders, and attempts to sort it out were frustrated by the libraries, as it seems to be impossible to change anything. Also, in the debates about whether to use separate partitions or not, I recall claims that using just one avoids complications, and I would like to avoid messing up a new PC right at the start.

    Finally, I have not yet updated to W8.1, presumably it would be best to do so before adding my data.

    Any guidance on these issues would be gratefully received.

  2. #2
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    12,519
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 1,398 Times in 1,221 Posts
    If you are planning to go 8.1, do that before splitting up your system, or you won't be able to upgrade. I would do that first and then create an image (of course, trusting that you already have an image, that can allow you to go back if the update to 8.1 does not work to your expectations.

    For the simple partitioning you are going to do, probably the native Windows Disk Management is enough.
    Rui
    -------
    R4

  3. #3
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    Not true at all. My data has been on a separate partition for many years. A year ago I went from Win 7 to Win 8 Pro. I then had to point the data pointers in Win 8 to my data folders on my D Drive using the approved method. I did not have to recombine the data and OS prior to the upgrade.

    When I upgraded to Win 8.1, I clicked on the upgrade tile on the Win 8 Start Screen and Win 8.1 was installed. I had to do nothing else. Win 8.1 automatically found the data on the D Drive. Worked great.

    The Win 8 disk Management should work, but I have learned the hard way that it is not infallible. I have chosen to use a 3rd party Partitioning app and am very pleased. I use Partition Wizard for my partitioning chores.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  4. #4
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Manning, South Carolina
    Posts
    9,436
    Thanks
    372
    Thanked 1,457 Times in 1,326 Posts
    George,

    My experience is similar to Medico's. However, I don't remember having to reset my data pointers when I upgraded from Win 7 HP to Win 8.0 Pro it just worked. YMMV! HTH
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    PowerShell & VBA Rule!

    My Systems: Desktop Specs
    Laptop Specs

  5. #5
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    12,519
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 1,398 Times in 1,221 Posts
    I guess the accurate answer depends on what is being put on a separate partition. I was pretty sure that I had seen warnings about what should be separate and what should not. I know there was an article from Fred Langa about it, but all that I can find now is Ed Bott's take on it:

    http://www.zdnet.com/dont-move-your-...ve-7000022142/

    The article is clear, though. If only the documents (documents, music, etc) folders are moved, using Windows mechanisms to do it, there will be no trouble upgrading.
    Rui
    -------
    R4

  6. #6
    WS Lounge VIP access-mdb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Oxfordshire, UK
    Posts
    1,726
    Thanks
    147
    Thanked 156 Times in 149 Posts
    I too separated my data from the OS (as per Ted's link to the approved method) it was very easy. I then upgraded to 8.1 without any issues. I wonder if problems might occur if you just move the data manually (I started that way and was getting a bit confused, but restoring and starting again was - as already stated - very easy).

  7. #7
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California & Arizona
    Posts
    6,121
    Thanks
    160
    Thanked 609 Times in 557 Posts
    However, I’ve been persuaded that it’s a good idea to separate the OS and programmes from the data for ease of imaging and to allow the addition of a SSD for the OS if I decide to do so later, even though impressed by the speed of the new PC. There is the question of how to go about it.
    Like others have suggested, a good place to start would be in moving common folder locations that you use, like the documents folder.
    I'd avoid moving entire user profile(s) as it is more associated with the OS than with you data, and not to mention just adds unnecessary complexity.
    (This is for skilled users who KNOW what they are doing)

    If you use WLM or any other email application, that would definitely be high on my move list.
    Thread: Windows Live Mail folders

    Start out moving the easy things, like email storage folders and other common folders.
    Also be aware that keeping your data separate from the OS is as much an organizational concept as it is a backup one.

    Libraries:
    Do not do anything with moving libraries, they are nothing more than hardlinks to data in other locations.
    Once you are done with the actual/physical relocation of data, pictures for instance, then go into libraries and draw from that location.
    Set up your libraries last if you feel you must use libraries.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
    Latest Build:
    ASUS X99 Deluxe, Core i7-5960X, Corsair Hydro H100i, Plextor M6e 256GB M.2 SSD, Corsair DOMINATOR Platinum 32GB DDR4@2666, W8.1 64 bit,
    EVGA GTX980, Seasonic PLATINUM-1000W PSU, MountainMods U2-UFO Case, and 7 other internal drives.

  8. #8
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    Moving data manually will definitely not work when you upgrade. When you move data manually, the pointers to the data folders still will point to the original locations, thus pointing to nothing since you moved the data. That is why the method outlined needs to be used. This allows Windows to know where the data is now located.

    RG, When I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 8, I used a clean install with format. This was why I have to change the pointers again. I guess I should have mentioned that. An in place upgrade should keep the pointers pointing to the new location whether going from 7 to 8 to 8.1, it should not matter. When I went from 8 to 8.1 I did the upgrade route and thus did not have to change the pointers at all.

    I moved all the data folders that were allowed to be moved, including the aforementioned Favorites, Pictures, Documents, etc. plus the WLM Store Folder, and any App Data that had the required Move tab. Basically anything I could move I did. I might have missed some of the folders, but I tried to find them all. After the Upgrade, Win 8.1 accessed ALL the data folders I had previously moved.
    Last edited by Medico; 2013-11-27 at 07:41.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  9. #9
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    703
    Thanks
    256
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    After three days sorting out a major problem on my wife’s PC, I can return to setting up my own.

    Advised to make an image of the existing system before upgrading to W8.1, choosing between Acronis and Macrium is the first step. Comparing prices, I see Acronis True Image 2014 on offer at £59.95 until next Friday. That is very tempting, but it’s probably an introductory offer, and I am reluctant to try brand new software, especially in an area that’s new ground for me.

    Next, reading through the thread to date, most of which I had not seen previously, it’s beginning to look as though the whole process of separation is beyond my capabilities. At present the new PC contains only an up-to-date W8 and most of my programmes. All my data is backed up to DVD in the expectation of installing on a new partition, either before or after moving to W8.1, but it looks as though that will not work.

    Reading the ‘approved method’ mentioned in #3 rekindled the old feeling that it’s beyond me. And it’s not clear, at least to me. For example, the writer changes C:\Users\Lincoln\Docs to e:\Lincoln\Docs. He had previously stated he would call the new partition X, so why does the ‘C’ change to ‘e’, and ‘Users’ has disappeared. This seems to leave huge opportunities for me to mess up, but is nothing compared to the section on AppData, which I find incomprehensible.

    It appears to me that the only way to avoid serious problems with my system is to retain a single partition and carry on as usual. Presumably I have to install my folders in the appropriate Libraries, rather than get rid of them, as I am unable to see what useful purpose they serve. CLiNT gave a hint they might be dispensed with. Perhaps he will be kind enough to elaborate.

  10. #10
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    12,519
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 1,398 Times in 1,221 Posts
    Maybe you can do without moving AppData, moving the docs, pictures, etc can be enough and you can achieve it easily. You can also create whatever folder structure you desire, so if e:\users\xxx is your choice, do it like that.

    I am saying this and I don't use multiple partitions, a decent backup regimen works for me, but if you want to try multiple partitions, don't let these hurdles stop you from doing it, George.

    I'm using Acronis TI 2014 and I find it as easy and reliable as TI 2013.
    Rui
    -------
    R4

  11. #11
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    George,

    If you have 2 partitions on your PC, then moving the data is easy. Don't work what the drive letter is called. This is set automatically by the system. It uses the next open letter. Just do not even think of this.

    Let's say you wish to move the Favorites folder from the C Drive to the Data drive. Here are the steps.

    In the C drive, users, "User Name" folder, select the Favorites Folder, Right click on the folder and select Properties.

    In Properties window choose the Location Tab. Select Move button. You will be given the choice of where to move the Folder.

    Find the Data Drive and choose Select Folder.

    Choose Apply. Select OK. Done!

    Now you will see a folder in your Data Drive called Favorites. If you do not wish to place the Favorites folder at the top level of the Data Drive, just Right click the Data Drive and create a folder, name it what you wish then choose that folder for the Move To location rather than the top level Data Drive.

    Just follow this routine for all the folders that have a Location tab. If the folder properties does not have a Location tab then it cannot easily be moved.

    In my screen shots I already have moved the folder in location to my Data Drive. Ignore the drive designations. Just look at the method:

    DataFolderProperties.jpgDataFolderLocation.jpgDataFolderSelectLocation.jpg
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  12. #12
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    George. I have read that Acronis TI 2014 is similar to 2013, but has a couple more features related to, I Believe, online storage. I use Acronis TI 2013 and it works very well for me. I have used Acronis since version 2010 and was never disappointed with it's effectiveness. As you might be aware, I "play" a lot with my PC and do restore regularly. Acronis has always worked.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  13. #13
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    703
    Thanks
    256
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ruirib View Post
    Maybe you can do without moving AppData, moving the docs, pictures, etc can be enough and you can achieve it easily. You can also create whatever folder structure you desire, so if e:\users\xxx is your choice, do it like that.

    I am saying this and I don't use multiple partitions, a decent backup regimen works for me, but if you want to try multiple partitions, don't let these hurdles stop you from doing it, George.

    I'm using Acronis TI 2014 and I find it as easy and reliable as TI 2013.
    Thanks for the words of encouragement, Rui, but I really think that if a single partition is good enough for you, it certainly is for me.

    My data fits on 2 DVDs with lots of space to spare, as the bulk of the pictures are on another DVD which doesn’t need to be backed up, so it doesn’t make a lot of difference whether it is included with the OS or not. I’m sure you have a much more complicated set-up, yet find a single partition sufficient.

    It had been my intention to stick to a single partition for simplicity, until seduced by starvinmarvin’s ‘Go on, George, treat yourself to SSD’. But the realisation of how tricky the ‘approved method’ for splitting is has brought a sense of reality. It’s not that e:\users\xxx is my choice, but just shows how the article that would be my guide if separating OS and data contradicts itself, and how is a novice to know what’s correct.

    Your last sentence is of more immediate importance. Has the 2014 version been on the market for long enough for the bugs to be sorted out, or have you only used it for a week or so? If the latter I will take the free version with the intention of taking up the offer next Friday if no problems are encountered.

  14. #14
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    12,519
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 1,398 Times in 1,221 Posts
    George,

    On TI, I have been using it for about a month. I have made several images (I backup my 2 PCs weekly, a couple others less regularly), and tested them as I usually do - verify and mount. I haven't had the need to do a restore and from previous threads you will see I don't really restore until I need it. I find this version pretty much similar to 2013, feature wise, performance wise and user interface wise.

    You can download the full version and use it in trial mode. The promotion price is valid until the 5th December.

    On the single partition, you should (maybe you have read it already), that I backup data independently, between images. I use an app to sync all my working documents, as I save them, between my desktop and laptop and the cloud (I use Cubby for this), so any document changed between consecutive images can be restored. This basically means that if I need to restore an image, I can restore the documents afterwards, ensuring no loss at all. With a single image, a restore will restore both your system and your data, so that may mean a loss of whatever may have changed, document wise, since you last image.
    I am just saying this so that you know the pros and cons of my own approach, not to discourage you. You can achieve similar results using, for example, SkyDrive. Of course, it's also perfectly legitimate to choose not to backup anything in between images - each of us defines what is "acceptable loss" in case of a problem and our backup strategy should be establish in accordance.

    HTH
    Rui
    -------
    R4

  15. #15
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    703
    Thanks
    256
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Medico View Post
    George. I have read that Acronis TI 2014 is similar to 2013, but has a couple more features related to, I Believe, online storage. I use Acronis TI 2013 and it works very well for me. I have used Acronis since version 2010 and was never disappointed with it's effectiveness. As you might be aware, I "play" a lot with my PC and do restore regularly. Acronis has always worked.
    Ted, Thanks for that. It looks as though ACT 2014 has been out long enough for me to buy with confidence.

    Have you given up your role as Administrator or Super Moderator?

    A couple more questions if I may!

    I had hoped to create a folder called something like My Docs on the new PC and drop all the backed up folders in it, thus bypassing Libraries, which seem to have been the cause of my problems in sorting a few dozen photos which became misplaced in copying from DVD to the laptop. After reading through your links relating to the approved method of separation, everything appears to be much more complex in W8, and I am now in doubt as to whether this is possible, even when sticking to a single disk.

    Finally, I’ve bought a Seagate Backup Plus drive as it seems to be their only 2TB drive with USB3. My brief experience with a WD My Book Essential convinced me that I don’t want continuous backup. I seem to recall you writing not long ago that you use Seagate drives and wipe all installed software before using it for images. My memory not being very good, is that correct?
    Last edited by georgelee; 2013-12-01 at 12:33. Reason: Typo

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •