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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbsteinbach View Post
    Hi Beiland:

    Lots of great advice was offered here.

    FWIW: I finally just converted my remaining XP box to Win7-Pro-32-bit. Since it only supported 2GB of RAM there was no advantage to going 64-bit, but a BIG advantage in being able to run virtually ALL my existing 16-bit and 32-bit programs under Win7-32-bit! I test drove this approach with an experiment in VirtualBox on a different PC, and it was a winner, so I made the switch to the remaining XP box. Only problem was a sound card needed to be replaced as there were no drivers for it that work in Vista or Win7, and I chose to put in a new video card even though I found compatible drivers that looked great on screen but would not run any video players, for some reason. And, if like me, you have any old DOS programs that you run on your XP box, they will still run in a command console on the Win7-32-bit setup. My main PC was a big CPU upgrade and its too fast for the old stuff, so this was an advantage, too...

    I did also experiment with XP in a VirtualBox environment, but you will still lose normal support in April, so IMHO its not a good option. Also, neither XP-Mode under Win7-Pro, nor XP in VBox is without their own learning curves, and you'll still have to reinstall all your software and make the virtual hard drive big enough for all your old stuff. Uses too much disk space and not such good performance for my taste.

    I did try out the XP Easy-Transfer software from Micro$$oft, but it took over 15-hrs to backup from the system to its spare internal drive -- much slower than my usual backup software, so I skipped using it to copy the old data back.

    Yes, you will have to wipe your drive and reinstall your old software (so hunt up the old CDs if needed), but otherwise I am completely happy with the change, and needed virtually no other software purchase.

    Good luck and best wishes.
    Rob
    Since I am using this upgrade from XP to Win 7 exercise as a learning process, I decided to also try backing up my old XP computer using Microsoft's Easy Transfer in addition to the other backup I have performed. You are correct, I think I am 4 hours into this backup, and still not done yet.

    Oh well,...I'll continue my review of this subject thread and see what else I might have missed in my original reading,....memory is shorter these days....ha...ha

  2. #62
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    I'm going back thru this subject thread and ran across this advice. I think I 'inadvertently' took you recommendation and made more than one backup...ha..ha,...maybe 3

    But your posting prompted another question I have. Once I have all these backups, should I be considering doing a whole new install from a reformatted HD?

    I am a little confused by some wording. Most instructions for the XP to Win 7 conversion talks about an 'upgrade disc' or program??
    The computer store sold me an "OEM System Builder Pack", "intended for system builders ONLY" . Am I going to have any problems loading this onto my older desktop computer that has not had XP removed from it (to my knowledge). Am I using this new software in an upgrade manner, rather than as a totally new install of a new system?

    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.N. downtown View Post
    It can if you install Win 7 on the same partition that XP is on without formatting. In that case it will "stuff" all of XP into a folder called Windows.old from which you may extract data files after installing Win 7.

    However, relying on that to preserve your data files is not a good practice, back up those files to backup devices before installing and remember than one copy is not a backup no matter where it is; you should have at least two copies on different drives or media at all times.

  3. #63
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    XP is not upgradeable to 7, so you always need a clean install. I am not sure whether an OEM version requires formatting the drive, maybe someone who has used an OEM version can state it.

    Technically, installing an OEM version in an "old" computer, is a license violation.
    Rui
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  4. #64
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    Technically a OEM sys build pack should be expecting a blank clean hard drive right? Will it say "not my scene man" if it finds another operating system already there? I'm not sure. I don't think it hurts to try and if it doesn't want to install for some reason you'll just have to use some third party software to format the drive and then install the builder's version. As far as I know the only real difference with the OEM sys builder pack is that it is tied to the system it is installed on and non-transferable to another system sometime in the future should you ever change computers.

  5. #65
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    Perhaps I've been doing 'too much' research on this subject, but as I have said before I am trying to learn something here in this process.

    I still harbor some questions about this OEM software version, and its proper installation. So I revisited the Microcenter store the other day and spoke with a very knowledgeable older sales manager who told me, yes I can use this OEM installation disc, but
    1) don't expect any 'support questions' from Microsoft if I should run into problems, as that is not included with the OEM version.
    2) be sure to first select the 'video option' before you choose the 'custom installation', or you will not have any screen image (I guess?)
    Any other input to this question??

    I next found this while looking around for the 'proper step-by-step' procedures. ...a comment over on Amazon buy a fellow who sounds pretty knowledgeable
    This is the exact same version of Operating Systems that come pre-installed by all system manufacturers and I am writing this review to both caution and make everyone aware about an apparent change to the Microsoft EULA (End-User License Agreement) concerning the Activation process of these "System Builder" or "OEM pre-installed" versions of the Windows 7 Operating Systems (the capped portion was never a condition for previous versions of Windows Operating Systems, which USED TO be tied ONLY to the system's motherboard through the BIOS) and which states:

    "Activation associates the use of the software with a specific computer. During activation, the software will send information about the software and the computer to Microsoft. This information includes the version, language and product key of the software, the Internet protocol address of the computer, and INFORMATION DERIVED FROM THE HARDWARE CONFIGURATION OF THE COMPUTER." - Section 4, Mandatory Validation.

    This means that it is NO LONGER just tied to the system's motherboard (BIOS) as is still popularly believed, but now to ALL hardware components and their exact configuration (including unique serial numbers where applicable) of the target computer on which all OEM or "System Builder" versions of the Windows Operating System in question that is to be tied to them.

    Just recently, my Acer Notebook's IDE 0 (Master) hard disk decided to fail on me after just 1 year and 8 months, and of course outside of the warranty period. So I replaced it not knowing of the aforementioned condition of the pre-installed EULA of this product which would BREAK my completely legal and fully purchased version of the pre-installed Operating System the very second I swapped the failing and the new functioning hard drives. Lo and behold, after the change of the hard drive model, serial number and capacity, my pre-installed Windows 7 Home Premium recovery disks (both a freshly ordered set and also a self-made image set) kept returning: "Windows Setup could not configure Windows on this computer's hardware" and kept restarting on the "Setup" screen and would go no further, no matter what I tried (on ALL six installation attempts). Curious, I perused the EULA to see if it could give me any information for why this was happening and discovered the reason for this to be the replacement of a faulty hard drive and because the pre-installed OEM version had remembered the original hardware configuration, and would not permit it's use just because of the new hard drive installation! And again, to remind you, on previous Windows versions, this was NEVER the case UNLESS the motherboard was changed!

    If I had not been given a legal retail license key by a friend who owns their own computer repair business along with access to the .ISO bootable disk, I would have wound up with a fully functional $800 (+ $134.99 for the hard drive replacement) paperweight because of this problem. This is yet another prime example of how these monopoly software corporations are scheming up new and more devious ways to force us all to re-purchase again and again their products should misfortune strike (as it did for me with my original hard drive on this system)... or so it sure seems to me!

    So for all of you system builders out there who love to tinker around or else upgrade their computer's hardware components, do yourself a huge favor right now to avoid financial heartache and just get the full retail version of your chosen Windows Operating System for a slightly larger cost... otherwise you will wind up spending TWICE or even more than what the full and transferable Operating System would have cost you in the first place! It happened to me, and it WILL happen to you somewhere down the line. And I must state that Linux Ubuntu is looking more and more attractive to me (a life-time Microsoft Windows user) with every new "Windows" OS and all of their new "conditions" intended to only cause misery for your support of them and their software...

    Bottom line: a purchased and legitimate "OEM" Operating System being broken after a simple hard drive replacement ON THE SAME COMPUTER IT CAME WITH is absolutely and unequivocally UNACCEPTABLE, Microsoft!

    http://www.amazon.com/review/R1XA40K...wasThisHelpful
    WOW !! I responded:
    Apr 11, 2014
    I am reading thru this subject thread as I am in the process of changing my older HP computer that was running XP for years (manufacture installation) over to Win 7. I went to our local Micro-Center computer outlet and the only version of Win 7 they had to sell me was the OEM version. I read the label on the box and became concerned about using this installation disc, AND how specifically to use it properly? Those questions brought me to this subject thread.

    I'm an older (71) guy who is only moderately knowledgeable about this new computer world, so any help, advice etc will be appreciated. BTW, I am also HIGHLY suspicious of Microsoft over my 12 years of usage of their products, and tendencies to bring STUFF to the market that is not fully developed, and in need of SO MANY after the fact 'fixes'.

    My most basic question about this OEM product is , isn't this the software that an Original Equipment Manufacturer would be putting on their machines for resale?...... I think so as I understand it?? So if I walked into a shop and bought a new computer with this software on it I would be getting the same thing. Now somewhere down the road I might choose to put more memory in that computer, or change out the power supply, or change out the video card,....at which point my computer would no longer work !!!! That is ridiculous in my opinion. Both the manufacture of the computer AND Microsoft in COMBINATION sold me a system that should continue to work thru minor changes in 'parts replacement' just as my automobile does. Otherwise I would term it a product with a 'built in obsolesces' .

    And then perhaps they suggest that I need to call them for additional HELP, which I understand from reading about the OEM version is NOT available from Microsoft?? (hmm, more strikes against this bully, the way I see it, ...or perhaps I will be connected to some person from Timbucktoo).

    My more specific concern. I was just ready this morning to start my Win 7 installation after doing 3 individual back-ups (practice and experiment...ha..ha) to an external hard drive. I was told by Microsoft and several other sources that I DO NOT have to wipe the old XP off my computer, but rather just insert the new disc and choose "Custom Install".
    BUT, when I visited that MicroCenter store the other day to get yet another opinion/advice, a very knowledgeable sales manager told me that the FIRST selection I should make was to select the 'video option', then custom install??...otherwise I might not get anything on the screen ????...... HELP.

    I am now concerned about my plan to possible install a new video card (for dual screens), that I purchased over a year ago and just never got around to installing. my thought was that since the drivers would all have to be redone after the 'clean install' of Win 7, why put this video card in to the computer while it is still running XP,...why not wait until Win 7 was running on the machine. Now I wonder if my new Win7 will stop working after I install it because I change over the video card.???

    I'm getting so sick of this Microsoft company I am seriously considering going to Mac/Apple

    Any help will be appreciated. I don't think its proper to post my email address here so it would not have to be a part of this discussion?
    Last edited by beiland; 2014-04-11 at 11:43.

  6. #66
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    FWIW, I usually buy OEM and have never had an issue installing or reinstalling after upgrades or hardware change. Once in a while I will have to activate by phone. Not that difficult. Only one time did I have to actually speak to a live person in the process, and simply explained I was upgrading to larger hard drive. bingo all done.

  7. #67
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    @beiland,

    The system builder has always been responsible for operating system support with OEM versions. That is one of the reasons the system builder version is cheaper than the retail version. In practice, I've never had a problem getting support for any version of Windows regardless of retail or OEM.

    Product activation has always used multiple system components to validate a product and more or less tie it to a specific machine. Because large OEMs have a tremendous volume of product they have a special way of activating Windows. That is why OEM versions from the large vendors are tied to a motherboard. As with miztrniceguy in post #66, I've never had a problem installing/re-installing an OEM version.

    Joe

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbsteinbach View Post
    ....Yes, you will have to wipe your drive and reinstall your old software (so hunt up the old CDs if needed), but otherwise I am completely happy with the change, and needed virtually no other software purchase.
    Rob
    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.N. downtown View Post
    Technically a OEM sys build pack should be expecting a blank clean hard drive right? Will it say "not my scene man" if it finds another operating system already there? I'm not sure. I don't think it hurts to try and if it doesn't want to install for some reason you'll just have to use some third party software to format the drive and then install the builder's version. As far as I know the only real difference with the OEM sys builder pack is that it is tied to the system it is installed on and non-transferable to another system sometime in the future should you ever change computers.
    Sorry for the delay in posting anew, but I had to go off onto some other 'outside projects'.

    So yesterday evening I started my Win 7 upload onto my older XP machine. I decided to follow the Microsoft instructions step-by-step. Those instructions also directed me to go on-line with the computer doing the install so it could tract the process, and make any corrections along the way (I was surprised it would have me go 'live' online doing this installation of a new operating system !). But I did as I was instructed, and things went along rather smoothly and automatically.

    And by the way I was NOT instructed to 'delete XP' first, nor to 'reformat' my C-Drive,...just start the 'custom install' right over it.

    However when it got towards the end, it restarted several times on its own, and subsequently I restarted it several times to see if the 'home screen' would come up looking like my Win7 laptop (a sign-in page, firewall). A few problems/questions arose;

    1) When the computer first starts up its opens up a black screen titled “Windows Boot Manager” that ask me to make some selections, one of which is Win7 or old system . I am a bit confused by this 'opening page' that reminds me of a 'safe mode' opening. At first it would do this repeatedly in cycles, but now after some extra restart cycling it seems to be only doing it just one time at a restart of the computer.
    Could it be asking me this before it goes to the page asking me for my firewall name, because doing the installation of Win7 it self-created a new folder on the C-drive in which it put a lot of stuff that had existed on my old system?
    I have not done anything with that file/folder yet, as first I wanted to sort out any other potential problems with my new install.

    2) I was utilizing Explorer 8 on my old system, and of course I imagine that was what was running doing the install of Win7 (per MS instructions). But almost immediately after the new install the system kind of snuck-up on me and installed Explorer 11. From what I have read I do not think I want to be running either Explorer 10 or 11 as they have significant little problems at the moment? Do I want to be running Explorer 9 instead??

    3) I was surprised that after the install with the OEM disc I received a notice that I needed to install something like 108 'important upgrades'?? WOW!. I just went ahead and did it.

    4) I have NOT tried to download any of my old stuff over to the new system yet, so that I might keep from complicating and or sorting out any issues with the new installation first
    Last edited by beiland; 2014-04-17 at 17:35.

  9. #69
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    Beiland

    1) When the computer first starts up its opens up a black screen titled “Windows Boot Manager” that ask me to make some selections, one of which is Win7 or old system
    It sounds to me like you have a dual booting system, and if you select the "old system" you will get the XP system.

    You may also want to use Disk Management (or Gparted) to see if you have two Windows partitions, one for XP and one for 7

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prescott View Post
    Beiland

    It sounds to me like you have a dual booting system, and if you select the "old system" you will get the XP system.

    You may also want to use Disk Management (or Gparted) to see if you have two Windows partitions, one for XP and one for 7
    Oh wow, I think you might be correct. When I tried selecting the previous system choice, it took me to a 'restore console' that appeared to be leading me to restoring my old system (XP I suppose?). I did not want to return to XP, so I cancelled that, and now I am back to Win 7 login.

    I tried to go to Disk Management, but I can't find it?
    I could find it in the old XP system as it was clearly identifiable, but this new system somehow hides it under some other name, wording, or something. (: (: ....they just have to keep changing the damn wording, symbols etc. When I found "Run Maintenance Tasks" it seemed to take me off into some automatic direction that I was unsure of??...so I stopped that. What was wrong with the old manner of description, where you could choose 'evaluate the disc', then select whether to defrag or not.

    I just don't understand all of this 'redesigning effort' with no one looking over these young guy's shoulders to see if it makes sense to a great majority of the people. I see this same sort of Bull in the new automobiles where you need a pair of reading glasses to see what speed you are doing. There are ever-smaller dials, and WAY TOO much info on the dashboard. (I drive limos part time, and experience a number of different cars). OK, that rant is over....
    Last edited by beiland; 2014-04-18 at 11:10.

  11. #71
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    Beiland: It all depends on how much time and energy you want to spend on this whole thing. In your original post, you say you already bought a Mac. I'd just learn to use that. I actually run Windows 7 64 bit on my Mac in a virtual machine, and it runs faster than on my i7 Dell. I use it only for running Quicken, as the Mac version is a pale comparison.

    But since you have already loaded Win 7 on your older machine, yes, all those choices you saw are "normal", as the OS comes frozen at a point in time,and always needs hundreds of updates that occurred since it was burned.

    Microsoft does probably more redesigns of their OS versions than many others do. Apple is pretty minimalistic on that, and Linux has so many versions that you can likely find one that doesn't ever change. Now that you are this deep into it, you might just keep plugging away on it. You'll quickly learn the differences, and get used to them. Win7 is going to be with us for quite a few more years. Now you just have to see if your computer drivers for this old machine are still supported in Windows 7. That could be your next challenge.

    As I say, I'd simply buy a new machine with Windows 7 on it (you can order one from Dell or Lenovo if you ask), if you really want to go that way, and donate this to someone else. Best of luck!

  12. #72
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    Installing New Drivers?

    So now I'm looking into what I have to do to get the new drivers that will be compatible with the Win7 system. I wrote down the name of the drivers I used to have on the HP computer with XP system on it. I thought I might have to go and find the new drivers for each piece of hardware or device I had on my computer.

    But under the control panel I found that the new Win7 system recognizes most of my 'devices' that exist on the computer, and in many cases it appears as thought they are 'Microsoft Compliant', they are indicated as 'working properly'....GREAT, if that is so.

    BUT I do have four indications denoted with an Explanation Point (problem I assume)!!
    1) Multimedia Audio Controller (PCI bus 0, device 6, function 0)
    2) Multimedia Audio Controller (PCI bus 0, device 5, function 0)
    3) SM Bus Controller (PCI bus 0, device 1, function 0)
    4) Unknown Device (on PCI bus)
    all indicated as drivers not installed (Code28)

    Can someone tell me what to do about these?
    Last edited by beiland; 2014-04-18 at 11:31.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by alf hanna View Post

    But since you have already loaded Win 7 on your older machine, yes, all those choices you saw are "normal", as the OS comes frozen at a point in time,and always needs hundreds of updates that occurred since it was burned.

    Now that you are this deep into it, you might just keep plugging away on it. You'll quickly learn the differences, and get used to them. Win7 is going to be with us for quite a few more years. Now you just have to see if your computer drivers for this old machine are still supported in Windows 7. That could be your next challenge.
    You are correct, I'm deep enough into it I will just keep plugging away.....besides I am getting pretty close to a finish, AND I have an Acer laptop with Win 7 that works very well. So I will have 2 machines with the same operating system.

  14. #74
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    Beiland

    I tried to go to Disk Management, but I can't find it?
    Start->Control Panel->Administrative Tools->Computer Management->Disk Management

  15. #75
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    FUN "Technically a OEM sys build pack should be expecting a blank clean hard drive right"
    The only reason I'm including full sentence is because I am interested in the "blank clean hard drive" part
    I have a Vista computer to upgrade to Windows 7. I've already done one via sustom install and all went well
    On the 2nd Vista computer I'd like to create a "blank clean hard drive" and then install Win7 for the experience of doing so
    I've read some recommendations, but I'd like to get some current recommendations please

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