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  1. #16
    Silver Lounger mrjimphelps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedball View Post
    well win 8 is not a modern os
    Windows 8 was released in October 2012. You don't think that is modern?

  2. #17
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    My feeble thoughts

    I stayed with XP until W7 was firmly established. I still truthfully did not want to make the switch. I was so thrilled to have a PC that didn't require multiple reboots every. single. day.; one that never froze up as well as one that simply, in a word, worked. How can you improve on such a solid OS?

    The first time a customer brought in (the first of many to come) a 2 month old laptop that took 14 minutes to boot after she installed MS Office I knew Vista (in any form) was not the answer. When 7 was introduced fairly quickly and I got to tinker with it a little, I switched from antacids to a grain of salt to cope with MS's latest hype. Toward the end of 2010, after SP1 rolled out, I permanently switched over to the new OS. Thus far, I've been pretty happy with it. I could, and can still, feel XP's influence in 7's stability and durability. I had my first experience with 8 a couple weeks ago. Two words: Keyboard Shortcuts.

    I don't remember if it was Windows Secrets or another of the half-dozen IT newsletters I receive each week, but one of them mentioned a lucrative business opportunity for some of those XP gurus to, in MSoft's stead, form a group to provide support to the huge base of die-hard XP users out there. Not a bad idea, really, IMHO.

    I'm now disabled due to kidney failure but I still do a little IT work for the municipality in which I live and the residents thereof. Most businesses I worked for over the years could not afford to stay on the bleeding edge of technology. Even where I live: I upgraded them from the used W2K Server & 3 W2K Pro PCs dumped on them in '04 by their previous IT guy to W7 & SBS in late 2010. That was a big investment for them. Same for firms with even 10 PCs.

    But as you're all very aware, cost is only part of the issue. If what they're using fills their computing needs, why should they have to scrap everything simply because the OS developer has to constantly manufacture its market? My brother owned two convenience stores in rural Alabama. He used 80286 model PCs for video rentals up until he sold the stores in 2004. There were some minor issues but the computer, bar code scanner, monitors and printer still worked.

    One thing I saw mentioned a few times here is the question of replacement parts for older machines. Since all the big builders have subscribed to "planned obsolescence" there are tons of parts out there for just about any generation PC. Older parts are expensive, yes, but still cheaper than replacing all your PCs. Surely, y'all have looked at eBay and, to a lesser degree, Amazon. And there are countless parts stores online.

    Cases in point:

    1) I have a Vista laptop on my bench right now that belongs to my wife's boss. The left mouse(?) button does not work. Cannot replace the buttons only but you can get the entire top cover complete with touchpad and buttons for <$20. (To buy from the manufacturer would have cost nearly 5x that for the same used part.)There weren't just one or two but dozens from which to choose. That's just eBay.

    2) Six months ago my neighbor was given a ThinkPad with XP Pro. The bezel around the display was missing a section which had been broken off. Hundreds of that model ThinkPad were available for virtually every conceivable part.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's absolute nonsense to force customers to give up something that works and works successfully for them simply because there's a new version. Obviously, the ones that are happy with XP feel their current level of security and performance is adequate for their particular needs. Who's to say there's anything wrong with that?

  3. #18
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    Would-be eternal XP users can bitch and moan all you want, the fact is that Microsoft will not be continuing to support it. There will be no critical updates available, new or old, after 8th April. Every new security hole that's discovered after then is an issue that will make XP users who go online sitting ducks for hackers. No, your firewall won't protect you. No, your antivirus won't fully protect you, and all antivirus programs will stop being updateable on XP after a while.

    Microsoft have done this before, they're going to do it now, and they will do it again. They can't support an unlimited increasing number of operating systems. You have about 6 weeks to get a new, secure, operating system installed, working and tamed. And only that long to fully patch all your XP systems, including XP Mode on Windows 7.

    Good luck for those continuing to use XP online anyway, you'll need it. I for one won't be helping you to solve and problems that arise.

    After some of you learn the lesson about needing to install a new OS, for some of you the hard way, think ahead, it pays. I bought every copy of Windows 7 my family and I will need in the future just before Windows 8 went on sale, at consequently very good prices. By leaving it until the last weeks, a few of you will be stuck with Windows 8, good luck with that too.

    Anyways, got to go do other things on my nicely tweaked Windows 7 OS, enjoy ya bitching and moaning to each other while the deadline approaches, I guess.

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  5. #19
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    More like a lost opportunity for you bigbad. What I mean by that is I read one of your other posts about some software you really like and paid a buncha money for...it runs all day for free in XP. I don't use the sly fox software but I experimented with it and as far as I know, XP is the only OS capable of this feat. It's a procedural task, not complicated; I won't spill the beans on that though. I believe in allowing owners to make a backup but not those who P2P the stuff.

    BTW, the castle walls don't fall just because it's lacking a couple new foot soldiers. Now go away you English pig dogs or I shall taunt you some more! (That's a line from a movie just in case no one knows )

  6. #20
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    What gets me about all this is that most XP "home" users have no idea about the upcoming "end of support" and what it means. Whenever I work with an XP user with a problem, and ask them about it, they knew nothing about it. Yes, WE know, us and fellow geeks who read about computers know, but the average PC user has not been informed. How would they be? MS hasn't sent out a notification to all XP users. It seems all they've done is announce it to those who keep up with tech news then expect others to get the word out. Yes, I know "end of support" has happened lots of products over the years, but this is much bigger.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjimphelps View Post
    But the point I made by my original post, and which I still stand by, is that if I were Microsoft, I would do whatever I could to wean people off of an OS that I was not going to make any money off of, and which likely is getting harder over time to keep secure from malware, hackers, etc. (To me, that is one of the key selling points of Windows 8 over older versions of Windows.)

    But there could be a Win-Win situation if Microsoft were to charge a small subscription fee for those users who want to keep using XP, and who want to continue receiving security updates. This way, Microsoft could still make money off of XP, and therefore they would have a reason to keep supporting it.

    Not too many people are going to want to spend a lot of their time and money doing work for people they don't even know, if there is no hope for any return on their investment. It's hard enough doing that for your friends and family, let alone perfect strangers.
    I don't disagree with a token charge for say SP4 with a 5yr life but the way that Microsoft have gone about things with Vista, the 8 fiasco and what is still a premature withdrawal of a a sound OS is just to alienate. It has spurred me to install and use Linux for the first time, bearing in mind that these are constantly improving, and I have friends and family that will go the same way. Perfectly good hardware otherwise going to waste and my laptop isn't going anywhere soon despite being 6yrs old. Good brand, sound performance and I feel that Microsoft want to force me to ditch it. Not a way to engender loyalty and they will lose out as I don't believe I'm alone in looking at alternative paths. I'm not sure what Microsoft software I will miss. Microsoft gained their foothold by realising the money wasn't in the hardware. They need to be careful not to be overdependent on the concept that the money is in the OS.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rje49 View Post
    What gets me about all this is that most XP "home" users have no idea about the upcoming "end of support" and what it means. Whenever I work with an XP user with a problem, and ask them about it, they knew nothing about it. Yes, WE know, us and fellow geeks who read about computers know, but the average PC user has not been informed. How would they be? MS hasn't sent out a notification to all XP users. It seems all they've done is announce it to those who keep up with tech news then expect others to get the word out. Yes, I know "end of support" has happened lots of products over the years, but this is much bigger.
    Indeed it's much bigger but it always evokes the same line of thought from me, how the heck have these folks been surviving on XP all this time if they are so oblivious? The ONE dependable factor is there are no new users of XP (statistically). If nothing is known of end of support, do they know of updates at all? Do they know anything of layered security? Do they know anything about not clicking links/attachments in email or anything they did not initiate? Do you see infections over and over from the same users all the time and they just keep paying the repair bill over and over? There's a juxtaposition in there that I've never been able to consolidate. If I were that unaware, I couldn't afford to run XP. Finally, in the end, it matters only to us that those folks are oblivious; it'll cause problems on the Internet, but to them, oblivious is oblivious is it not? In other words it's a problem we can do very little about.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjimphelps View Post
    Windows 8 was released in October 2012. You don't think that is modern?
    obviously, speedball isn't paying attention or is blind. though Windows 8.1 was officially released in October 2013 and that is a modern OS.

    I've already moved away from XP and upgraded my bedroom computer to Windows Vista SP2 in July 2013 since it's good enough to run Vista/Win7 (AMD Sempron 3000 [2.0ghz] cpu w/ 1Gb of RAM, 120gb ide hard drive). I'll eventually upgrade to Windows 7 SP1 once I get a license to run it on my bedroom PC.

    at least there's one third party program that requires minimum of Windows 7 and that's Realplayer Cloud. that one won't install nor run under XP/Vista.

    my aunt's older computer will still have XP SP3 even beyond April 2014 since it's not capable of running Vista/Win7 or higher [it's an old Dell Optiplex GX100 computer - Intel Celeron 1.1ghz cpu w/ 512Mb of RAM max]

    I think XP users can run XP even when Microsoft drops support for it in April 2014 until many third party program developers decide to drop XP support for their apps, which won't happen for a while.

  10. #24
    Star Lounger burger2227's Avatar
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    If M$ makes money selling software then tell them to SELL an OS we can upgrade to! They are debating cutting off Windows 7 already, so obviously they want to FORCE us to buy Windows 8. Another VISTA nightmare while they figure mobile out!

    PS: 7 is only good until 2020.

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