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  1. #1
    Silver Lounger mrjimphelps's Avatar
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    The end of Microsoft support for XP

    I have read lots of complaints about Microsoft abandoning XP when there is a huge active XP userbase.

    The way I see it, Microsoft isn't making any money from this huge userbase, yet they are being asked to continue to support them.

    The way Microsoft makes money is by selling software. Therefore, I like Woody Leonhard's suggestion that Microsoft charge a small annual fee in order for people to continue to receive XP support.

    If you were Microsoft, would you keep giving support to XP, or would you try to move people foward to a more modern OS? Me, I would do exactly what Microsoft does with regard to OS support.

  2. #2
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    Have to agree with you Jim, but I fear you will find many members won't...
    Rui
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  3. #3
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    I agree; still, I use XP and will continue (in a virtual machine that is). I hardened it and will continue to fine-tune that hardening until the mal-ware writers give up and attack other OSs since that would be more lucrative for them to do so.

  4. #4
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    I don't know who would disagree, I'm a very ardent XP user, will be for a long time, loss of updates means nothing to me since I barely paid them any heed for years and years, heck I don't even update a system past SP2 unless some software requires it (most does these days).
    I say don't let the update door hit you in the derriere Microsoft...and while you're at it, turn off the activation servers, set it FREE man. Microsoft has done everything they could to kill off XP over the last half a decade short of actual sabotage. Turn and shuffle away in defeat, stinging from the assessment that XP is still WAYYY more popular than that steaming pile of Eight.
    I heard the best assessment of the situation at hand on the most recent episode of Windows Weekly. To quote, "It's time to double down on the people who actually use your products, NOT some mythical group of consumers who will never stop using their simpler Android and iOS devices just because you WISH they would." Said about Microsoft of course. Bingo, right on the head. Build that nonsense into separate products if you still wish to try for the shoelace tackle of Google and Apple, just don't mess with the business and productivity users. I fall into the latter camp and you couldn't pay me anything less than 5 grand or so to give up my XP systems and put up with the grief of something else still considered viable. Special exception, only 2 grand to switch entirely to Win 7.

    God love'em for producing XP but,...hear that?...me neither, but, that was the second Microsoft Deathstar exploding silently in space. Now go away and let the XP users and Ewoks party!


    ...too strong?

  5. #5
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    ...too strong?
    Yes, I think so. If you prefer XP, no problem. With your technical knowledge I'm sure you can make it safely work. But with a few minor ttweaks, some of us actually like that "steaming pile of Eight." I find I live primarily on the desktop but I actually like the option of having access to modern apps only when I want to. I have found a couple of Modern app games I like.

    As for "don't let the update door hit you in the derriere Microsoft", I've always felt that if and update doesn't work, there is almost always a problem with the PC that should be fixed. I never let a PC that I repair go without fixing any Windows Update problem. I think to do otherwise is unprofessional.

    I never bad mouth anyone's choice of an OS but I believe Microsoft has made security advances in each new release. I find Windows 8 the most secure and fastest OS they have released but if you are happy with what you have, there's no reason to change.

    Jerry
    Last edited by RetiredGeek; 2014-02-14 at 13:56.

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  7. #6
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    After listening to Windows Weekly this week I'm just so glad the people have joined the Rebel Alliance in such great numbers that it means Win 8 is NOT the future of Windows, though I know not what that is because for me it has been THE most frustrating technically proficient passive aggressive anti-productive OS I have ever used (don't miss the plus in there). That's why the inclusion of productivity users as a separate entity alongside business struck home like Robin Hood's mythical arrow splitting the arrow beneath to win the contest.
    Sent from Windows ME thru Opera 10.63...just before they crashe

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    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    I recently set up several PCs for a business (lawyers no less!) and with a few tweaks they love it. They did hate it out of the Box.

    Jerry

  9. #8
    Silver Lounger mrjimphelps's Avatar
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    I took the plunge and did a clean install of Windows 8. I used it as-is, trying the best I could to work in Desktop mode, but it was extremely frustrating without the Start Button / Start Menu. I then installed StartIsBack, and I couldn't be happier with Windows 8. This is on my extremely lame eMachines Vista computer with 2 GB of RAM.

    (Windows 8.1 is a different story. Too many incompatibilities.)

    As others have said, if you want to use XP, go for it. I really liked Windows 7, but I went to Windows 8 because I got tired of commenting on Windows 8 without actually having used it! (There has been a lot of Windows 8 "expert" commentary from people who have never touched it!) Also, I wanted to have as new an OS as I could, so that I could keep up with patches, etc.

    But the point I made by my original post, and which I still stand by, is that if I were Microsoft, I would do whatever I could to wean people off of an OS that I was not going to make any money off of, and which likely is getting harder over time to keep secure from malware, hackers, etc. (To me, that is one of the key selling points of Windows 8 over older versions of Windows.)

    But there could be a Win-Win situation if Microsoft were to charge a small subscription fee for those users who want to keep using XP, and who want to continue receiving security updates. This way, Microsoft could still make money off of XP, and therefore they would have a reason to keep supporting it.

    Not too many people are going to want to spend a lot of their time and money doing work for people they don't even know, if there is no hope for any return on their investment. It's hard enough doing that for your friends and family, let alone perfect strangers.

  10. #9
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    I have read lots of complaints about Microsoft abandoning XP when there is a huge active XP userbase.
    That's a declining userbase, not a fixed or growing one.
    Once the vast majority of XP users turnover their XP based computers there will be no going back.
    Hardware is already starting to outpace it.

    MS has every right to dump it's XP support considering that it already has 4 operating systems to support, let alone supporting one that is grossly antiquated.
    Last edited by CLiNT; 2014-02-15 at 13:48.
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  11. #10
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    I knew it would be a landslide for ending support ruirib (with the caveat of paid support of course). China is about the only place still asking for an extension. Also calling XP grossly antiquated won't make it so; it wouldn't even be close to as useful and USED if it were. Extremely old yes, but I use antiquated OSes (98,ME,BeOS a tiny bit) and the difference is quite striking. In fact it's one of the cornerstone reasons MS is having such an extended uphill battle to purge XP. Am I the only one making all these spacial and temporal connections? XP does not exist in a vacuum! The other cornerstones; the Vista disaster, piracy (mostly in China again), and business reluctance to change something that is perceived rightly or wrongly as safe enough (they've had a long time to learn safe procedures either the hard way or with good IT support) and certainly efficacious enough for their needs.

    I wonder if a small fee for support would be successful...in essence Microsoft would be getting a taste of what they always seem to want; a subscription fee rather than a license fee.

  12. #11
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    One thing that doesn't get mentioned a lot is that about 95% of ATMs are still XP based. I doubt the companies are going to just dump them when support ends. The reason XP was extended because of the bungled developments that eventually led to Vista. I suspect Windows 7 may get extended since many businesses are just transitioning to Windows 7 now.
    Joe

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    The big push to get rid of XP is because XP was originally released in 2001 which means its beginnings were in the late 1990s. The computing world was a different place then. The design and architecture of XP does not accommodate today's computing environment. Microsoft have stated more than once they cannot retrofit an increasing number of security fixes to XP.

    Large companies do not have to dump XP. They are free to pay Microsoft a fee to work on XP to fix a specific problem they discover. At some point it is not cost effective to continue to use XP based systems. Each company has to figure that out and act on it.

    Joe

  14. #13
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    you cant retrofit any security fix to anything

    if security were not ARCHITECTED in originally
    you will be chasing your tail forever trying to fix it

    considering the trainign and existing aps
    it makes sense to keep xp forever
    and slowly start introducing newer devices but only as absolutely necessary


    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP517 View Post
    The big push to get rid of XP is because XP was originally released in 2001 which means its beginnings were in the late 1990s. The computing world was a different place then. The design and architecture of XP does not accommodate today's computing environment. Microsoft have stated more than once they cannot retrofit an increasing number of security fixes to XP.

    Large companies do not have to dump XP. They are free to pay Microsoft a fee to work on XP to fix a specific problem they discover. At some point it is not cost effective to continue to use XP based systems. Each company has to figure that out and act on it.

    Joe

  15. #14
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    well win 8 is not a modern os

    people will keep using xp for a long long time if ms thinks we are going to want a crippled tablet interface instead of a real pc and a decent os

    microslop could rule the biz again if they started over and made a completely virus proof pc
    it can be done. i know people who built the demo models in the 1980s. the usaf did it too.
    but nobody will use a safer pc. did nsa make them keep them vulnerable ??



    Quote Originally Posted by mrjimphelps View Post
    I have read lots of complaints about Microsoft abandoning XP when there is a huge active XP userbase.

    The way I see it, Microsoft isn't making any money from this huge userbase, yet they are being asked to continue to support them.

    The way Microsoft makes money is by selling software. Therefore, I like Woody Leonhard's suggestion that Microsoft charge a small annual fee in order for people to continue to receive XP support.

    If you were Microsoft, would you keep giving support to XP, or would you try to move people foward to a more modern OS? Me, I would do exactly what Microsoft does with regard to OS support.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLiNT View Post
    <snip> ...... </snip> Once the vast majority of XP users turnover their XP based computers there will be no going back. Hardware is already starting to outpace it. MS has every right to dump it's XP support considering that it already has 4 operating systems to support, let alone supporting one that is grossly antiquated.
    Exactly! Microsoft is in business to make as much money as possible from as many people as possible, so what they do is always going to be motivated by that principle. Having a static user base is not what they want. Added to that is supporting an OS that continues to require monthly patching - time consuming and expensive.

    So they bring out the "Next Best Thing" - NBT. I don't have a problem with that at all: every company has to do that or run the risk of being overtaken in the market.

    <veers off-thread>
    However, many people don't want to use the "NBT" and continue to use the "Previous Next Best Thing" - PNBT". Eventually, however, the computer running the PNBT will require some replacement parts, which may not be available or supported by the PBNT. At that stage, unless the user has squirreled away new/used parts that can be used as a replacement, the upgrade option becomes a necessity.

    That's life, it happens all the time and very few people complain about it: thinks cars, expensive electronic items, houses and so on.

    I don't see the need to contribute to Microsoft's coffers at this stage, perhaps never. My XP is fully patched, and hides behind a hardware firewall - my router. Every so often I do an anti-virus scan, a malware scan, use CCleaner and a few other such apps. In eight years I've not has any viral infections, and only a few dodgy root-kits and malware, but I know why and how they got there, and they're easy to fix. So I don't see the point in going to the NBT when the PNBT is still a fully functioning, suitable piece of software that does everything I want it to.

    Should I have an elevated series of "bugs, nasties and other nefarious intruders", AND the reason is the OS lets them through, THEN I most definitely will change my OS - or if I can't get old parts I'll have to change. But not at the moment.

    I have a video card, motherboard, ram, hard disk, cables and connectors lying around, so I may be able to replace parts for a while. Who knows.

    <lurches back on-thread>

    Microsoft's doing what they should be doing. I don't agree with the latest offering Win8.1 and don't buy into the constant replacement of OSes just because MS wants more of my money.

    Everyone has a choice. Mine is to stay with XP and I'll change when it costs me to stay with WinXP, or when XP fails to support the uses I have for it, or when I can't get newer hardware to work with it. I've been working with desktops since 1988, and with an IBM 360 mainframe from a few years from 1972, and I've seen it before. Microsoft's only one company that does this, others are not as visible, but think of hardware manufacturers - <raises voice> think of Apple, with its incompatible connections between models. <voice returns to normal>.

    I'm not including businesses here - they have huge costs in any changes to their systems.

    We can make that choice fully informed, or believe market hype, overstatements or whatever else comes from the mouth of the beast and spend our hard-earned cash so we can say something like :

    1. "Look what I've bought."
    2. "Isn't this nice."
    3. "Now I can work better, faster and cleaner." (Right)
    4. "New technology, ain't it great."
    5. "Now I need to buy a new PC."
    6. "At last I can work without the OS getting in the way."
    7. "When's the next training course. I NEED to learn this new OS before I can do any more work."
    8. "Oh, great. I can't play DVDs any more."
    9. "Where's my desktop gone?"

    and finally ...

    10 "A new OS? Great, show me how it works about sometime next year."

    I'm for #10, somehow I think XP will be my desktop of choice for a few more years.

    THE SMALL PRINT
    This discussion does not include any flavor of Linux, Apple OS or any other variant of anything other than Windows XP and above. Opinions expressed above may have no foundation in fact, are my own and may not be supported by any external group, business a national security organisation.
    Last edited by irjc; 2014-02-20 at 15:12. Reason: Haven't said enough.

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