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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken92111 View Post
    For me the answer to the Windows 8 initially confusing and alien start screen was an inexpensive third party add on called Start 8. It provides a Windows 7 style start menu with a one click option to go the Windows 8 default menu. Result? A windows 7 style environment with wallpaper and task tray together with the boot speed and stability advantages of the Windows 8 OS. There are also free apps that are similar to Start 8.
    For me, the way to get the look and feel of Windows 7, is to use Windows 7. It works flawlessly.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonga View Post
    I didn't find a "Disadvantages of Windows 8" thread, so I read through this and...

    The main advantage of Win8 is the ability of social networkers to give up their personal privacy by simply booting their PCs and logging into their MS account. This enables Microsoft to collect all your browsing history and link it to your account, among other things. Now that the new CEO says the mission of MS is "big data," we no longer have to wonder.

    Thankfully, we can run Win8 with a local account (though it is difficult and non-intuitive and therefore will not help most users) and ignore all the apps that need to know and share everything about us to work. Let's hope the desktop version of Win9 will continue the tradition of the Personal Computer, because Windows 8 is turning the PC revolution into a Public Computer devolution. In an age when personal privacy is being voluntarily relinquished and companies are hiring and making life-altering decisions based on surreptitious data, all while the powerful in government and the private sector alike amass more and more power over the average person's life, this is no small thing.
    There are many ways to see our internet world. Or 'social media'. Or 'privacy'. Or 'security'. In the last year, went through three books which I relate to much of the fluff and fancy of our media fancy world. Will loop back to them in a bit.

    First, a curmudgeon's viewpoint on doing Windows 8, and into Windows 8.1 Update - Microsoft and it's partners, developers of software and hardware, have been very generous and patient with Windows XP end users. Thirteen years of support is a long time. One might say Microsoft's respect for the end-user has hurt it's stock price. I don't own the stock and don't play the market, but I believe much of what serves as choice for us consumers is driven by the 70% stock market volume of institutional buyers, and they want/need churn, not more of the same. I bet they saw Windows 8 in it's two-faced form as great possibilities, not respect for long-time Windows XP end-users. As an end-user, my move to Win 8, like my move to Vista, was basically maintenance of my ability to compute in a contemporary way plus respectful support for my reliable suppliers, Microsoft and Windows certified vendors. In my child mind, voting with my wallet makes a difference.

    Second, for me, social media is too expensive. Except for flickr.com. I have little time after work, shopping, cooking, bookkeeping, long-form readings, and yard work. I chose a dumb phone and no internet. I no longer have a TV. But, I have moments to stop and smell the flowers, and humbly acknowledge my ignorance of many current media tsunamis.

    And third, I believe in personal computing. I do not feel much of the internet buzz has to do with personal computing. For me, personal computing has to do with a stand-alone computer at home and continuing education, not purchases or training. So, I do not accept "Windows 8 is turning the PC revolution into a Public Computer devolution." I would blame either the marketer's view of the blob of internet users, or internet users themselves. As a desktop user, at least Windows 8 provides me with some low cost exposure to another mindset.

    I read the following three books after presentations on booktv.org. Purchased at my local brick-n-mortar ignoring price differentials. For some, the contents are unrelated. I understand that. But it's more fun for me to include the internet as part of my scifi ecology. Like observations for science and questions in philosophy. The links below are links to the presentation videos.
    1) "Dragnet Nation: A Quest for Privacy, Security, and Freedom in a World of Relentless Surveillance" Julia Angwin
    http://www.booktv.org/Program/15479/...lancequot.aspx
    Julia Angwin is not preachy. I liked that.
    2) "The News: A User's Manual" Alain de Botton
    http://www.booktv.org/Program/15465/...anualquot.aspx
    Alain de Botton is kinda preachy, but his iconoclastic relationships are flavorful.
    3) "Who Owns the Future?" Jaron Lanier
    http://www.booktv.org/Program/14601/...uturequot.aspx
    Jaron Lanier is preaching to the choir. Odd, but intriguing.

    If you're still with me, try this essay -
    The Eternal Mainframe
    http://throwww.com/a/7bn
    Rudolf Winestock
    "Computer science essay. The revolution has come full circle: from time-sharing on mainframes in the university, to personal computers in the home, and back again to time-sharing on mainframes in the cloud. It’s also a story about the gain and loss of freedom and privacy. In the era of personal computing we owned our data and our software. In the era of cloud computing we don’t, and even our hardware is remote-controlled" ... found at thebrowser.com.

    Have a nice day.
    Muchos mahalos.

  4. #33
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    I am glad to see some mild to strong supporters of W8 commenting here. I am among the latter, but think MS made a big mistake in getting 8 to default to Metro/Modern, that they have partly rectified under 8.1. Once you boot to the desktop and set up your taskbar and toolbars, it seems to be better, quicker and more secure than 7. You can also minimise the unwanted emergence of the charms bar, and finally kill the on-screen keyboard icon which is of zero use to anyone with a physical keyboard.

  5. #34
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    Now there's a blast from the past!

    Quote Originally Posted by Prescott View Post
    The programs that Carousel managed were called TSRs, Terminate and Stay Resident, and being able to have more than one program resident in memory depended on having enough memory. It was a good reason to buy more memory.
    Having been around long enough to remember the "Good Ol' Days" of DOS and TSRs, I also recall buying my first memory upgrade, which I believe was a "whopping" 16KB expansion, for over a hundred bucks. I also recall dropping a few hundred bucks more for a "massive" 110MB hard disk that was certainly "more than anyone could ever fill up." I'm happy to have lived through that era and all the technological advances that have come along in between, but I am also thankful that Moore's Law has held!

    I often wish that more operation-intensive software could once again be distilled down to machine language, eliminating bottlenecks in speed that occur with so much bloated code and the massive libraries that high-level programming uses. That would vastly reduce the need to constantly upgrade one's computing power to perform the same tasks. Of course then the symbiotic relationship between hardware manufacturers and software developers might fade a bit.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonrichco View Post
    I am glad to see some mild to strong supporters of W8 commenting here. I am among the latter, but think MS made a big mistake in getting 8 to default to Metro/Modern, that they have partly rectified under 8.1. Once you boot to the desktop and set up your taskbar and toolbars, it seems to be better, quicker and more secure than 7. You can also minimise the unwanted emergence of the charms bar, and finally kill the on-screen keyboard icon which is of zero use to anyone with a physical keyboard.
    I think that certainly would have gone a long (most) way toward mitigating the negative response to Win 8. Infiltrate rather than bulldoze; problem is as a historic monopoly, Microsoft seems only to know how to bulldoze. I just decided I like that word, bulldoze...no, it has nothing to do with a sleeping bull.
    Regardless, folks who like W8 original seemed to think that was such a non-issue but it brought about ALL the extra and needless U.I. changes to accommodate the so-called unifying U.I. Microsoft was after. Problem with that is that touch is NOT a replacement technology; it is an alternate technology that fits it's own usage niche, just as wireless mouse and keyboard fits it's niche.
    It's good to see someone from the "other" side who understands the same thing!

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Wolf View Post
    Having been around long enough to remember the "Good Ol' Days" of DOS and TSRs, I also recall buying my first memory upgrade, which I believe was a "whopping" 16KB expansion, for over a hundred bucks. I also recall dropping a few hundred bucks more for a "massive" 110MB hard disk that was certainly "more than anyone could ever fill up." I'm happy to have lived through that era and all the technological advances that have come along in between, but I am also thankful that Moore's Law has held!

    I often wish that more operation-intensive software could once again be distilled down to machine language, eliminating bottlenecks in speed that occur with so much bloated code and the massive libraries that high-level programming uses. That would vastly reduce the need to constantly upgrade one's computing power to perform the same tasks. Of course then the symbiotic relationship between hardware manufacturers and software developers might fade a bit.
    Best one I remember is a one MB PCMIA card for storage on an HP 95 LX @ $500. Remember then, when modem access to the pre-web was per minute?

    I noticed the item on Powershell earlier. I should look at it for Win 8. Perhaps for "operation-intensive" one might try shortcuts to Powershell files. I use shortcuts to *.CMDs and ActiveState Perl *.PLs.

    Sidestepping the GUI may be a strategy.
    Last edited by dried_squid; 2014-05-01 at 18:57. Reason: typos

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbearren View Post
    True enough, but Most folks (including me) are referring to 8.1 Update as 8.1.1; quite unofficial, but realistic, nonetheless..

    Hear! Hear! Trying to keep from confusing oneself in this case, 8.1.1 is an easy identifiable and a perfectly fitting moniker for the current MS Windows OS. Correct terminologies and nomenclature be damned. In this case even MS fails to tow that line on its own numerous tech support sites.....
    "... don't think it won't happen just because it hasn't happened yet..."

  9. #38
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    Well, color me a Neanderthal!
    What I love the most about every new Windows OS is the fact that there is respect for both LEGACY hardware and LEGACY software!

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dried_squid View Post
    I like File Explorer.
    I like [Ctrl][N] to open a new File Explorer window. BTW, it was there in Vista, but I never knew.
    I like tiling two File Explorer windows. Also in Vista, but I never knew.
    dried_squid, I think that you'd be better served using the Win+E for opening a new instance of FileExplorer, as Ctrl+N usually is the command for Open New (as in a page or a tab or a document).
    In addition, upon opening two FileExplorers (using Win+E), you can tile them (side-by-side) more readily by using Win+LeftArrow(<) key to position one on the left half of the screen and then using Win+RightArrow(>) key to position the second one on the right half of the screen. These two key combinations work equally well with almost every application window.
    You can also experiment with Win+DownArrow key to minimize an application window as well as using the Win+UpArrow key to maximize an application window!
    There are numerous FREEware utilities which provide 'dual-pane" FileExplorer replacements/alternatives on the market.
    Few examples are FreeCommanderXE and MultiCommander

    Regarding your question about UTF-8
    Last edited by pseudoid; 2014-05-01 at 20:26.

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  12. #40
    5 Star Lounger Drew1903's Avatar
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    1st, I have a folder icon on my Taskbar... it is not the 'by default' Libraries folder. It is Applications, same as the ALL Applications screen. Ergo, it is whatever is on Start plus, all the rest. This means, a regular ole window opens, on the Desktop and you pick whatever you want... w/out changing screens.

    2nd, have Desktop Toolbar... nice bonus, means desktop icons don't need to show.

    Now, that the Store icons can be pinned > Switcher bar a lot less.

    Pinning in general.

    3rd, a personal thing maybe but, I use Hide Taskbar. It's a bit hazy the difference twixt that & grabbing Charms.

    That conventional, windows explorer type window, of course, can be sized, positioned, set to desired View & Sort and it's only open to or long enough to select something wanted... be it Start items, Store APPs, other applications or drilling down to anything w/in the machine.

    Anyway, none of the above is due to anything negative about Start or Tiles, that or they can , still, exist, as ever. However, together, it's darn sweet, I'll say. It, in its entirety, puts everything @ one's fingertips w/out ever, actually, leaving Desktop to access anything.

    Not telling anyone what to do or what is good or bad. Just putting on the table for you... if interested.

    AND, this is w/ no 3rd Party add-ons.

    BTW, I don't think I seem to use Charms much. Might be because there are various ways to do things or find things... and I might not always think of it, handy as it may be,

    Myself, the times I > Start are when I've hit the Win key & begun typing something to Search. It's just too quick & easy a way to Search not to use it. Hit 1 key & begin typing, geeesh, eh?

    Cheers,
    Drew
    290_Windows8_1.jpg

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  14. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dried_squid View Post
    And third, I believe in personal computing. I do not feel much of the internet buzz has to do with personal computing. For me, personal computing has to do with a stand-alone computer at home and continuing education, not purchases or training. So, I do not accept "Windows 8 is turning the PC revolution into a Public Computer devolution." I would blame either the marketer's view of the blob of internet users, or internet users themselves. As a desktop user, at least Windows 8 provides me with some low cost exposure to another mindset.
    Yes, I tend to agree with all you said. However, let me clarify my earlier post with respect to this paragraph of yours. It is indeed the Facebooks, Googles, et al, and their users, who are to blame for this headlong rush to give up all privacy, but my point was that MS is clearly heading in the same direction with Windows, and rapidly. Read up on their new CEO...his aim is to focus MS on "big data."

    If you read Tim Berners-Lee and Vint Cerf (I assume we all know who they are), they think we need a new Internet, with technology that defaults to protecting our data with point-to-point encryption. If we don't fight for it though, it will not happen. The U.S. is already way behind Europe in privacy...our "Safe Harbor" approach makes a mockery of our great Constitution, which is rapidly becoming a meaningless paper tiger, without so much as a wimper from the people.

    The Internet is perhaps the greatest technological advance in human history. Social networking is wonderful. I am not against it...that would be stupid. I am against the headlong rush to do these things without thought for how to do it right and well, while protecting basic human rights that we have forever taken for granted - and therefore do not adequately appreciate to protect. What we have now is a real disaster, and in my opinion, users are generally not well-informed nor aware of what data is being collected on them, who has access to it, and how it can be used against their interests.
    Last edited by Gonga; 2014-05-01 at 21:25.

  15. #42
    5 Star Lounger Drew1903's Avatar
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    "you can tile them (side-by-side) more readily by using Win+LeftArrow(<) key to position one on the left half of the screen and then using Win+RightArrow(>) key to position the second one on the right half of the screen. These two key combinations work equally well with almost every application window."

    There is a term for this. It is called "Snap". Immediately, back when beta-testing 8, I couldn't help but, notice the same word was in the Switcher Bar menus. Interestingly enough, that has been changed to where it, now, is "Insert" not, snap. That bit of dbl word usage is gone which, is only a good thing.

    So, yes, Snap, the 50/50 w/ the L/R arrows is that and has been w/ us since Windows 7.

    Cheers,
    Drew
    290_Windows8_1.jpg
    Last edited by Drew1903; 2014-05-01 at 21:38.

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  17. #43
    5 Star Lounger Drew1903's Avatar
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    I'll add that when the internet was born few saw what was coming. In the day security, hacker, piracy, bots, root-kits, worms, Trojans, malware, adware, spyware, none of this was front & centre as it is now. The whole trip of firewalls and multi-level, redundant, protection...even data storage & data recovery. It has all bubbled to the surface as we started using this internet thing.

    So, gee, if it wasn't discovered that the thing is not Fort Knox. It vulnerable, it has flaws, a weak points and holes in it. Realising that precipitated all kinds of things. To where we are now, playing catch-up, playing cat-n-mouse. And, at long last, saying we should be pro-active not, reactive. So does that mean the wheel should be re-invented...Redone knowing what we didn't back in the day and now make an internet where privacy isn't a worry. Is it possible? Or will underbellies be discovered same as the 1st time and we, still, be dogs chasing tails?

    Now, that we are so wise & enlightened, is the ideal attainable? Or must we keep dealing w/ the challenges of this. If we started over, could we, at this stage and is it worth it?

    Drew
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  18. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonga View Post
    ...
    The Internet is perhaps the greatest technological advance in human history. Social networking is wonderful. I am not against it...that would be stupid. I am against the headlong rush to do these things without thought for how to do it right and well, while protecting basic human rights that we have forever taken for granted - and therefore do not adequately appreciate to protect. What we have now is a real disaster, and in my opinion, users are generally not well-informed nor aware of what data is being collected on them, who has access to it, and how it can be used against their interests.
    Like many other 'innovations', once it's out of the box, creative and resourceful minds find unexpected applications. Some enhance the common good, some don't. Consider fast food - breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

    Best you or I can do is to try to help the ones who are open to being helped. Remember the parable about giving a man a fish, or teaching him to fish. Some don't care to learn. Some might appreciate it. All men are different. Best you can do is to keep trying.

    My nephew asked me about doing a website. I asked him some questions. I've tried to begin with the vocabulary. I created three mini-examples assuming he would eventually fall into some content management system, and I hoped to at least lay some groundwork with vocabulary. I have experience with Plone and Wordpress, and also handcode HTML and CSS off the file system. I was unsuccessful. I think he still likes me, but his schedule has other priorities.

    I had a math professor who once told our class that "Learning is retrogressive." Not "was", but "is". I think so. But the hard part for you and me, and all who would like to 'protect' our friends and loved ones, is to keep them open to more than "easy-to-use", "user friendly", and "free". So back to retrogressive and the common good, think 'driving a car' or 'swimming in the ocean', the best we can hope for, is to inject a little more respect for the ecosystem. Like respect for Mother Nature. S*** happens. So two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back, and so on.

    Try the Julia Angwin book. Two starting points - What is your threat model?, see Chapter 5; and Know your data?, see Chapter 6. If and when you have an opportunity, take people to the basics. I'm still waiting for this opportunity with my nephew. He's in healthcare. He's swimming in all kinds of potentials, whether he acknowledges it or not.

    Take care.
    Last edited by dried_squid; 2014-05-01 at 23:53. Reason: rephrase

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoid View Post
    dried_squid,
    Regarding your question about UTF-8
    Thanks.

    Periodically, when I have the strength, I visit here -
    Internationalization Techniques: Authoring HTML & CSS
    http://www.w3.org/International/tech...g-html#charset

    At this point, still scratching the surface. I'm aware of it, but I'm not cognizant of it affecting me yet. I presume Win 8 is aware of it.


    Thanks again.

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