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  1. #1
    Star Lounger OS2_87_Dinosaur_Gizmo_Fan's Avatar
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    32GB RAM and therefore no Page File?

    UPDATE 9/19/14 For a summary of this thread, please go to my post at this Date & Time 2014-09-11, 22:57
    UPDATE 9/10 spoke too soon again ... lots of new info & old info clarified ... though still impressed with RAMDisk conceptually, awaiting testing results.
    UPDATE 9/8 PENDING TESTING this has been resolved for high performance Gaming system:
    32GB RAM - 4GB of RAM for RAMDisk for the Page File = 28 GB RAM which is plenty for all of my son's Gaming & PC needs (please read my last few posts about RAMDisk, an elegant solution)

    UPDATE 9/7 still not resolved ...
    UPDATE 9/5
    I may have spoken too soon ... this situation may not be resolved yet!

    RESOLUTION: My son built his new Computer with 32 GB of Ram and his OS is Windows 7. There should be no need for a Page File.
    Last edited by OS2_87_Dinosaur_Gizmo_Fan; 2014-09-20 at 01:48. Reason: UPDATE 9/19/2014 Thread Summary

  2. #2
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Hi and Welcome to the Lounge!

    W7x64 user here, 8GB of RAM, currently virtual memory (page file, swap file) is set to use a minimum of 1.5GB up to a maximum of 4.4GB across 3 drives. Current VM usage is:
    AllocatedBaseSize=400
    Caption=C:\pagefile.sys
    CurrentUsage=368
    Description=C:\pagefile.sys
    InstallDate=20130123133210.474800+000
    Name=C:\pagefile.sys
    PeakUsage=399
    Status=
    TempPageFile=FALSE


    AllocatedBaseSize=1024
    Caption=G:\pagefile.sys
    CurrentUsage=833
    Description=G:\pagefile.sys
    InstallDate=20130920022328.422065+060
    Name=G:\pagefile.sys
    PeakUsage=945
    Status=
    TempPageFile=FALSE


    AllocatedBaseSize=100
    Caption=K:\pagefile.sys
    CurrentUsage=98
    Description=K:\pagefile.sys
    InstallDate=20130611170546.654637+060
    Name=K:\pagefile.sys
    PeakUsage=99
    Status=
    TempPageFile=FALSE
    = 1299MB, within the minimum allocated for each drive, on a Windows session that is 6.5 days old. The PeakUsage figures above show that at no time during this session has the VM needed to use more than my minimum allocated amount.

    Also note that there is a TempPageFile entry there, Windows can, and often does, create a hidden, temporary page file when there is no page file set and it needs to page out some data.

    MS have changed their stance on page file sizing a number of times over the years, I think the 1.5x figure is from the XP era (when I might have been using a 2GB RAM notebook, with 3 HDDs and a 4092MB swap file on each!).

    MS uses a best guess method, based on common Enterprise usage mostly, once you move away from that towards the extremes, like high-end Workstations or gaming machines, or underpowered relics from a previous era that have been upgraded to recent Windows versions, the further away from that guess the actual VM usage becomes.

    MS defaults are fine for most users - but not all. Yet the difference between MS defaults and actual usage in terms of speed is almost zero - you won't gain anything but drive space by reducing VM space - you might see programs disappear though!

    The vast majority of recent programs do not require a page file, providing there is ample RAM, they will work as they should. Others will complain on install, or first run, if they don't see a page file allocated - sometimes, they will complain if there is a page file but it's not on the System drive.
    Last edited by satrow; 2014-08-29 at 05:31. Reason: 1.5GB to 1.5x

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  4. #3
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    The temporary page file is created for Windows' own use

    If he has an SSD, rather than a SSHD, perhaps he should use a setting like 1GB minimum, 4GB maximum and keep tabs on its usage - or check what the default, Windows managed paging file allocates first? SSD space is costly and he ought to ensure that ~25% of that space is kept free over the long term for best performance and longevity. The hybrid SSHDs are less costly per GB and much larger in size.

    From Vista onwards, Windows is 'smart' enough to read paged data from the drive that is the fastest at that time. This really only applies to a single paging file plus a ReadyBoost drive though, as far as I can tell (up to W7 SP1), Windows does not duplicate any significant amount of data across multiple page files otherwise.

    I don't know whether it writes to the fastest available page file.

    The tool I used to check my page file usage (from Sysnative):
    Quote Originally Posted by jcgriff2 View Post
    To check your system's "Recoveros" (Recovery) and Page File settings via Windows Management Instrumentation (WMI), run the following -

    HTML output - WMI - "Recoveros" and Page File Settings (HTML)
    Text file output - WMI - "Recoveros" and Page File Settings (TEXT)
    And - A hotfix is available that enables a Windows 7-based or Windows Server 2008 R2-based computer to create a memory dump file without a page file: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2716542

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  6. #4
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    I've been running Windows 7 Ultimate with 16GB RAM and no page file since 2010. The closest I ever got to maxing out the RAM was running chkdsk on a 1TB drive - RAM usage got close to 15GB by the time chkdsk had finished its run.

    Windows 7 will create a dump file on the system root in the absence of a page file.

    Windows 8, on the other hand, runs a persistent page file. Deleting it does no good; it will reconstruct it on the next boot. I set the min/max at 4095MB, and it seems satisfied with that.
    Create a new drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "Let them that don't want it have memories of not gettin' any." "Gratitude is riches and complaint is poverty and the worst I ever had was wonderful." Brother Dave Gardner "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else." Sir Thomas Robert Deware. "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?" Captain Jack Sparrow.
    Unleash Windows

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    Super Moderator BATcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS2_87_Dinosaur View Post
    I am afraid to go near Windows 8 ... I am hoping and praying for a huge step forward.
    Fear not - Windows 9 may well be available Real Soon Now, with the option of a native desktop, that several people know and love...
    BATcher

    Dear Diary, today the Hundred Years War started ...

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  10. #6
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    A few things to consider when dealing with huge amounts of RAM, like 32 GBs worth;

    1. You definately will NOT want to have Windows manage it, especially anything less than W7.
    WHY: It's an old an outdated formula that is completely useless with amounts of RAM in excess of
    8 to 12GB. If you want to waste that much space on your drive, enable the hibrnation feature (sarcasm).
    2. Depending upon the type of program(s) you run, you may not actually need a PF.
    3. PF usually a waste of space, even with a lightning fast SSD, RAM memory will always be faster.
    4. The OS itself will require a certain minimal amount of PF for error reporting and such.
    You can decide whether you actually want this or not.

    Just be warned though, not all software plays nice without a PF.
    I recommend setting your PF to a minimum and maximum; 200MB to 4GB, if you don't decide to remove it altogether.
    Last edited by CLiNT; 2014-08-30 at 07:31.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Windows 8.1, 64 bit
    Motherboard: DX58SO2*Chipset: X58 Express/Intel ICH10*BIOS: SOX5820J.86A.0888.2012.0129.2203*Processor: Intel Core i7 CPU X 990
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 580*Memory: Corsair 12 GB, 4x3@1600*PSU: Corsair HX1000*Hard drives: REVO X2 160GB*OCZ VERT X3 120GB*5 mechanical storage drives (12 TB) total.

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  12. #7
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    The only advantage I've ever experienced for have the Paging File/Virtual Memory set the same for Max and Min is it doesn't change on the HDD, doesn't get fragmented [scattered around] as when variables are used. Some disk utilities may be able to show where the fragments are on the HDD during their defragging operation.

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    With 1TB drives and beyond becoming common and people worry about a 8 gig pagefile? Get serious. That is a drop in a very large bucket. Set the min and max to the same amount of memory in your system and be done with it. You will never miss the space and if something does need a pagefile you have it available.

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    New Lounger djohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS2_87_Dinosaur View Post
    RESOLUTION: My son built his new Computer with 32 GB of Ram and his OS is Windows 7. There should be no need for a Page File.
    Your son just built a computer with Windows 7? Why would he do that? Windows 7 is nearing end-of-support. I have been using Windows 8/8.1 for several years now, and find it far superior to Windows 7. He needs to get up to speed.

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  18. #10
    New Lounger djohnson's Avatar
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    Windows 8 has a wonderful desktop with a highly customizable, efficient, start screen. This contrasts severely with the messy start menu that is very difficult, to impossible to customize. What used to take hours to gain control of you can do in minutes with the new Windows 8.1 Start Screen.

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  20. #11
    3 Star Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by djohnson View Post
    Your son just built a computer with Windows 7? Why would he do that? Windows 7 is nearing end-of-support. I have been using Windows 8/8.1 for several years now, and find it far superior to Windows 7. He needs to get up to speed.
    Yup, 8/8.1 is so well liked that it barely has a market share and win 9 is rushing out to get people back to newer windows OS, LOL.
    Glad you like it, I don't.

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  22. #12
    2 Star Lounger
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    Smile support for Win 7 and future planning

    Quote Originally Posted by djohnson View Post
    Your son just built a computer with Windows 7? Why would he do that? Windows 7 is nearing end-of-support. I have been using Windows 8/8.1 for several years now, and find it far superior to Windows 7. He needs to get up to speed.
    I've got to agree with Lumpy 95. Also, your statement about Windows 7 is partially true, but only partially true. Extended support for Windows 7 will continue until January, 2020.

    Your son may want to contact the new CEO at Microsoft and let him/her know that he's building a computer. Then politely ask what the anticipated requirements for Win 9 are. Microsoft may provide him with information on the system he needs to build for use beyond January, 2020.

    Please let us know what your son decides to do and how things work out.

    Charles


    Genius is one per cent inspiration, ninety-nine per cent perspiration.
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    Last edited by csmart4125; 2014-09-04 at 14:23.

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  24. #13
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    Excellent article by Mark Russinovich on virtual memory...especially the section, "How Big Should I Make the Paging File?"

    http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussi...7/3155406.aspx

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  26. #14
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    I was an original Windows 8 hater. I despised it! After a few friends asked for help on their W8 machines and I embarrased myself by having to ask "how do I ...", I picked up a refurb laptop, bought a W8 disk on eBay, and began my learning session. After installing Classic Shell and disabling the mandatory boot sign-in, I'm OK with it. Two simple tweaks made all the difference.

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    (Formerly "Windows XP Geezer) I sure hated that I was forced to move from XP. I left Windows XP recently and put Windows 7 Pro BACK on this desktop (that came with Windows 7). I don't know anything about Page Files, but I loved XP and now 7, and never had any issues with either one. I had to find and install my old Realtek Audio to get my stereo mix back. I play a few big online games, and the ones with Windows 8 have a lot of issues. I have invested in this Windows 7 machine, and I never intend to get that Glorified smart phone, cloud loving, mouse and keyboard hating Windows 8, nor will I ever get a tablet, or squint at a tiny phone. Windows 8 and those horrible new phones are a Big Fail to me.

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