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  1. #1
    Star Lounger OS2_87_Dinosaur_Gizmo_Fan's Avatar
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    Do you have a lot of RAM? Have you heard of RAM Disk software?

    .
    If anyone reading this has tried the software RAMDisk (provided by different companies), would you please share your experiences and opinions with us?

    If you are unfamiliar, then you might be interested in the following info:

    First, please know that we have NOT TESTED IT YET (-:
    This is for informational purposes only.

    This is related to the thread about the new system my son built for Gaming with Windows 7 and 32GB RAM, and wondering if a page file was required. If so, then I wondered what the most efficient, fastest way to do that might be?

    Another Windows Secrets lounge member introduced me to the concept of
    the software RAMDisk that puts the Page File (or other files, if so desired) into super-fast RAM (obviously faster than hard drives).

    RAMDisk can be configured to a variety of sizes and used for a variety of purposes, one important purpose for owners of certain SSDs (Solid State Drives) is that it could prolong the life of the SSD.

    I was fascinated with the concept, and researched it.

    There are so many possible applications and purposes for RAMDisk. Some for those with slow HDs but lots of RAM, others for those with certain Solid State drives benefiting from a situation that will prolong life.

    PENDING TESTING ... this is the resolution for my son's system that we are going to try:
    32GB RAM - 4GB RAM given to RAMDisk for the Page File = 28GB RAM which will be more than plenty for his Gaming and computing needs.

    If you are interested, here are 3 Links to get you started
    (PCWorld, romexsoftware.com, & dataram.com):

    1) from PCWorld "How to Supercharge Your PC With a RAM Disk" Article # 260918
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/26091..._ram_disk.html

    2) http://www.romexsoftware.com/en-us/p...isk/index.html

    3) http://memory.dataram.com/products-a...tware/ramdisk/
    Last edited by OS2_87_Dinosaur_Gizmo_Fan; 2014-09-09 at 01:11.

  2. #2
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    Do not put the page file into a RAM disk. The point of a page file is that it is a permanent store of Windows memory data used as a cache, not a temporary store - a RAM disk is cleared at power off. Windows requires a page file and it is best left to Windows to manage in W7 & W8. For the record a page file is only used occasionally when your PC runs out of RAM. With 32GB this is not likely to happen often.

    1. 32GB or RAM is more than enough for gaming on a modern PC. A graphics card is also a good addition for gaming, but you can build a decent gaming box using an Intel i5-4590 CPU without an additional graphics card.
    2. Use an SSD for drive C: and store the page file there - Windows will automatically put it on C:. This will be orders of magnitude faster than a mechanical hard disk and only a little slower than RAM.

    cheers, Paul

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    Star Lounger OS2_87_Dinosaur_Gizmo_Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T View Post
    Do not put the page file into a RAM disk. The point of a page file is that it is a permanent store of Windows memory data used as a cache, not a temporary store - a RAM disk is cleared at power off. Windows requires a page file and it is best left to Windows to manage in W7 & W8. For the record a page file is only used occasionally when your PC runs out of RAM. With 32GB this is not likely to happen often.

    1. 32GB or RAM is more than enough for gaming on a modern PC. A graphics card is also a good addition for gaming, but you can build a decent gaming box using an Intel i5-4590 CPU without an additional graphics card.
    2. Use an SSD for drive C: and store the page file there - Windows will automatically put it on C:. This will be orders of magnitude faster than a mechanical hard disk and only a little slower than RAM.

    cheers, Paul
    Dear Paul T,

    All of this has been discussed in the thread about my son's new system he built with 32 GB RAM.

    FYI: brand new, top notch gpu, cpu, ssd, etc.

    Any Windows system will run without a Page File if kept within the amount of RAM, monitoring memory and other stuff.

    The Page File absolutely can be volatile. Nothing is needed after shutdown.

    For example, a lot of people delete the Page File before Defrag.

    Many people with lots of RAM run without Page Files all the time. Look in the other thread about lounge member bbearen who has been running his Windows 7 since 2010 with 16GB RAM with NO PAGE FILE.

    The reasons why we are keeping a Page File is explained in the other thread, for the most part.

    Technically speaking, having the Page File in RAM is much faster then on a HDD or even a SSD.

    FYI: If this was my system (I WISH!) then I would run without the Page File ... period.

    But this is my son's system, and for reasons I don't want to document, he wants the Page File "just in case" ... but as little as necessary and as fast as possible.

    To me, RAMDisk is an amazing concept for many applications and purposes, to include possibly prolonging the life of certain SSDs.

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    I re-iterate, Windows requires a page file, but with lots of RAM it won't be used much. Windows 7 & 8 does not require a RAM disk for anything, including the page file.

    cheers, Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T View Post
    I re-iterate, Windows requires a page file, but with lots of RAM it won't be used much. Windows 7 & 8 does not require a RAM disk for anything, including the page file.

    cheers, Paul
    Dear Paul T,

    Please talk to bbearen who has been running without a Page File since 2010 on his W7 with 16GB RAM without incident.

    For years, in many different Windows OS's, I have run countless times without Page files.

    Are you concerned about error reporting?

    If Windows "requires" a Page File, then why does it work just fine without a page file without any complaints if you monitor everything and keep it within memory constraints?

    Again, please read the very knowledgeable Windows Secrets lounge member bbearen, and jab68 postings, and others.

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    Star Lounger OS2_87_Dinosaur_Gizmo_Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T View Post
    I re-iterate, Windows requires a page file, but with lots of RAM it won't be used much. Windows 7 & 8 does not require a RAM disk for anything, including the page file.

    cheers, Paul
    P.S. Of course nothing "requires" RAMDisk!

    Just like systems don't require many things! Gamers and others who obsess over performance and speed (including Moi)

    like to employ new technologies, sometimes just for fun or as a learning experience.

    RAMDisk has many fascinating capabilities for those who can benefit from them and want to.

  7. #7
    Star Lounger OS2_87_Dinosaur_Gizmo_Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T View Post
    I re-iterate, Windows requires a page file, but with lots of RAM it won't be used much. Windows 7 & 8 does not require a RAM disk for anything, including the page file.

    cheers, Paul
    Dear Paul T,

    To be clear: we are talking about Windows 7, not Windows 8/8.1

    Please talk to bbearen who has been running without a Page File since 2010 on his W7 with 16GB RAM without incident.

    For years, in many different Windows OS's, I have run countless times without Page files.

    Are you concerned about error reporting?

    If Windows 7 "requires" a Page File, then why does it work just fine without a page file without any complaints if you monitor everything and keep it within memory constraints?

    Again, please read the very knowledgeable Windows Secrets lounge member bbearen, and jab68 postings, and others.

    FYI: in the other thread, bbearen also runs Windows 8/8.1 He says it has a "persistent" page file. Though he has deleted it while running without incident, he says it is re-created on the next boot.
    Last edited by OS2_87_Dinosaur_Gizmo_Fan; 2014-09-09 at 05:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T View Post
    I re-iterate, Windows requires a page file, but with lots of RAM it won't be used much. Windows 7 & 8 does not require a RAM disk for anything, including the page file.

    cheers, Paul
    Dear Paul T,

    I apologize for being grumpy. I am tired!

    And frankly, an ever growing part of myself regrets ever asking my son about his Page File (-: and the reason I asked him ws just for fun ... after discovering he installed the ridiculous amount of 32 GB RAM ... because I knew he did not know what a Page File was. He has built systems for years but isn't interest in learning about the OS! But then he researched about the Page File and now he is really dangerous ...

    In case I am missing something ...which is so eay to do in the world of computing...

    Would you please explain why Windows 7 (not Windows 8) needs a Page File? And why so many seem to have no problems when they run without one?

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    Windows in all incarnations needs to swap memory out occasionally and that is what the swap file is for - as you know. For mere mortals who do not have the knowledge or determination to run a system completely within it's memory limits a swap file is required. For the game / confident amongst us we can pretend to be saving disk space by deleting the swap file, but it's really only of value in a "see, I told you it can be done" scenario. Leave Windows to do it's thing for the most part and that include the swap file.

    cheers, Paul

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    I use RAMDISK to run Cyberfox 64 bit browser. I have 16 GB ram so I can allocate a few GB to the RAMDISK. My PC is using a Samsung 840 Pro SSD for the OS and games and I've run the computer with system managed Pagefile, manual set Pagefile, No pagefile, pagefile on the second HD, two page files, etc... Haven't seen much of difference and no problem with pagefile turned off.

    There are settings that allow the RAMDISK to write all your data to the SSD or HD when you close the RAMDISK, if you want to save history, cookies, and stuff like that. One of the drawbacks if you don't set the RAMDISK to autostart (and I don't) - you have to start it before firing up that browser or program.

    It really makes for one snappy browser running with RAMDISK.
    Last edited by Zeus36; 2014-09-10 at 00:37.

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    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T View Post
    Windows in all incarnations needs to swap memory out occasionally and that is what the swap file is for - as you know. For mere mortals who do not have the knowledge or determination to run a system completely within it's memory limits a swap file is required. For the game / confident amongst us we can pretend to be saving disk space by deleting the swap file, but it's really only of value in a "see, I told you it can be done" scenario. Leave Windows to do it's thing for the most part and that include the swap file.
    Windows does not "need" a page file if one has sufficient RAM installed. I've been running Windows 7 Ultimate with 16GB RAM and no page file since 2010. Windows 8 will run just fine without one as well.

    It's not about saving disk space. I've had 3 1TB drives on this rig for a while, and just added a fourth. Windows can be forced into doing a lot of things it doesn't want to do, and do them quite well.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by bbearren; 2014-09-09 at 19:48.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

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    Have you heard of RAM Disk software?
    I never answered that part of the question but Yes, I have used a RAM disk as far back as 1992 but didn't need special software in MS-DOS, could invoke it when needed such as in copying data from floppy disks so as to delete obsolete data and re-record what was left. It was called ramdrive.sys. It worked good when having 8MB [Yes, that's MegaByte] or more RAM as the floppies hold only 1.44MB and setting the RAM Disk at 4MB.
    RAMDrive is a memory-resident program that enables you to use part of your computer's random-access memory (RAM) as if it were a hard disk drive. By using RAMDrive, you can make MS-DOS Task Swapper run faster.
    When you install MS-DOS, the Setup program copies the RAMDRIVE.SYS file to your DOS directory. To create a RAM drive, you add a DEVICE= or DEVICEHIGH= command for RAMDRIVE.SYS to your CONFIG.SYS file.

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  16. #13
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    Unless you have an application that requires a lot of I/O, a RAMdisk is a waste of time on a system with 32Gb RAM. RAMdisks can be good on servers, where there's lots of file I/O going on with multiple users and caching these can be used to improve performace (but updates still need to be written to a physical disk), but single-user systems will generally show only marginal improvements. Look at it this way: If you want to open a file, it needs to be read from disk. Sure, that will be faster if the file is on a RAMdisk, but you have to get it there first. And getting it to a RAMdisk from a HDD takes just as long as reading from a HDD for opening - and you still won't have opened it until after it's been read to the RAMdisk. I suggest you look into some benchmarks that take into account the total resources needed to create & use RAMdisks.
    Cheers,

    Paul Edstein
    [MS MVP - Word]

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    Quote Originally Posted by macropod View Post
    Unless you have an application that requires a lot of I/O, a RAMdisk is a waste of time on a system with 32Gb RAM. RAMdisks can be good on servers, where there's lots of file I/O going on with multiple users and caching these can be used to improve performance (but updates still need to be written to a physical disk), but single-user systems will generally show only marginal improvements. Look at it this way: If you want to open a file, it needs to be read from disk. Sure, that will be faster if the file is on a RAMdisk, but you have to get it there first. And getting it to a RAMdisk from a HDD takes just as long as reading from a HDD for opening - and you still won't have opened it until after it's been read to the RAMdisk. I suggest you look into some benchmarks that take into account the total resources needed to create & use RAMdisks.
    Dear macropod,

    Which is faster: having a Page File on a dedicated HDD, having a Page File on a dedicated SSD, having a Page File on a dedicated physical hardware RAM drive, or having a Page File in RAM (in the virtual RAMDisk) ?

    The previous question assumes an abundance of RAM, so much so, that there is a lot that is never used and it is therefore no loss to assign in my son's Gaming system's case, 4GB to the software RAMDisk for the Page File.
    Last edited by OS2_87_Dinosaur_Gizmo_Fan; 2014-09-10 at 01:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macropod View Post
    ..................
    Dear Macropod,

    FYI: I also posted this in the other related Thread entitled
    " 32GB RAM and therefore no Page File "

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