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  1. #1
    5 Star Lounger Lou Sander's Avatar
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    More Cover Page Problems

    Several Loungers helped me eliminate the page number on the cover page of the attached document. Unfortunately, I set up the cover page to end with a Section Break (Next Page), when it SHOULD have ended with a Section Break (Odd Page).

    I've read some of the stuff on Sections, but I still can't figure out how to change the (Next Page) to an (Odd Page).

    (BTW, if you like cowboy songs, you'll like what's in the document.)
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    Lou Sander
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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  2. #2
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Lou,
    1. On the Home page turn on Paragraph Marks
    2. Place your cursor immediately to the right of the paragraph mark on the Section Break line. (See red mark below)
      SectionBr1.JPG
    3. Hit the Delete Key
    4. On the Page Layout tab click the Breaks dropdown arrow
    5. Select Odd Page
      SectionBr2.JPG
    6. Done.

    HTH
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

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  3. #3
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    RG's advice will kill off the header/footer and page number information for the section preceding the section break you are replacing. This may be important to you since it is why you started playing with the Cover Pages in the first place.

    A less disruptive way of changing a section break type is to put your cursor in the following section and open the Page Setup dialog by either double-clicking in the ruler or going to Page Layout > Page Setup Dialog Launcher (that tiddly little thing in bottom right corner of the Page Setup group). Under the layout tab, you can change the section start property to Odd Page.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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  5. #4
    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
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    The built-in cover pages are different. They typically have a manual page break rather than a section break and the page following them will be numbered page 1.

    The method shown by RetiredGeek will work, it will do what you asked, but it will also erase any existing section properties such as headers and footers, page numbering, margins or orientation. This may or may not cause problems. If you insert the new section break immediately before the existing one and then delete you may get better results.

    http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/sections2007.htm
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

  6. #5
    5 Star Lounger Lou Sander's Avatar
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    Sheesh! This "section" stuff is maddening. When I tried Andrew Lockton's method, I got a message saying that my document was too wide for my printer (or words to that effect). It would not let me just accept what I had done. (There is a lot of margin crowding in my document, and many pages have two columns, some of which have a line or two that needs a negative right indent that pushes them into the right margin. Nobody said this would be easy to accommodate.)

    Retired Geek's method worked fine, but it put a page number on the cover page, which is where all this started (I was just trying to get rid of the page number on the cover page). I am tired of the perversities of doing this by manipulating sections, and will handle the page number on the cover page by covering it with an opaque white graphic square.

    In Word 2003, I never dealt directly with page numbers. I had a standard footer that included a centered page number. Everything behaved well, and I could put page numbers where I wanted them, eliminate them where I wanted to, etc. I think I'm going to move that footer over to Word 2010. ;-)
    Lou Sander
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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    Lou

    The behaviour of headers/footers and page numbers related to section breaks hasn't changed in Word for the many versions of Word over the last 20 years. What has changed is the ease of introducing new-fangled content like cover pages which is laid out in potentially more complex layouts than you are used to. Also, the fact that commands have moved into hard to find places hasn't helped those of us who were quite comfortable looking for commands where we knew they were.

    If you post a sample of the front of your document, we can suggest the least painful way to resolve your issue. It really isn't that difficult once you know how but there are plenty of rocks you need to look under if you don't know what you are looking for.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

  8. #7
    5 Star Lounger Lou Sander's Avatar
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    Andrew,

    My document can be downloaded from the first post on this thread.

    I may want to change the sequence of songs in the document, leading me to think that each one should be in its own section (or something). Trouble has come when there's a transition from one-column pages to those with two.

    The model I want is to have no page number on the cover (it is now present but covered up with a graphic, which is a totally acceptable solution), followed by some initial material starting on an odd page with pages numbered i, ii, iii, etc., followed by a lot of songs with page numbers 1, 2, 3, etc.

    I probably want to have two versions of the document -- one with a left gutter margin for one-sided printing and binding, and one with mirror margins for printing on two sides with a binding on the left. The current document has a left gutter margin. I don't yet know what horrors await when I try the mirror margins.

    One little refinement I'd like to put in concerns the song Coyotes, on page 25 of 108. In the two-column format, the word 'distance' in the seventh verse is hyphenated. I'd like to find a way to eliminate the hyphenation, letting the line extend to the right. I know this is a tiny thing, but it would please me to make it happen. There are one or a few other instances like this with other songs.
    Last edited by Lou Sander; 2014-09-16 at 12:54.
    Lou Sander
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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  9. #8
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Lou,

    One observation I made while working with your document was that I think you'd be better served not having a section for each song. Rather, create a header style for the song title that includes the Paragraph -> Line and Page Breaks -> Page break before option. This will eliminate a bunch of headaches now the only time you need a new section is when you want to switch to/from a two column format and you can use a continuous break for that. Here's an article on fixing your hyphenation problems.

    HTH
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

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  10. #9
    5 Star Lounger Lou Sander's Avatar
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    Interesting! I never noticed or knew of the "page break before" option. I like it, and will give it a try.

    Right now I do NOT have a new section for each song, and I DO just change the section when I go to/from a two-column layout. (There may be some exceptions due to the editing history of the document.)

    Maybe we aren't communicating well about hyphenation. The thing I hope to get around is when there is a long line low in the first column of a two-column song, and there's a whole page of white space to its right. Right now, the long line runs into the (empty) second column and breaks to a new line, whether hyphenated or not. I'd like it not to break. There may be some sort of slick or tricky way to accomplish that, maybe by switching to a one-column section below the both-columns-populated area of the two-column section. Once again, I know that this is a very minor point. But if there's a way to do it, I'd like to try it.

    PS - What is HTH?
    Last edited by Lou Sander; 2014-09-16 at 20:47.
    Lou Sander
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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  11. #10
    5 Star Lounger Lou Sander's Avatar
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    I've changed the paragraph format of the Heading 1 style to include "page break before". That allowed me to get rid of all the manual page breaks at the ends of songs. Pretty slick.

    If I can figure out how to do it without creating a mess, maybe I can convert all the "New section (next page)" breaks at the ends of songs to "New section (continuous)" breaks. I have a feeling that this will make things less likely to become cobbled up when I make other changes.

    Some background: Right now, the songs appear in their order on the "Top 100 Western Songs" list. Ghost Riders in the Sky was chosen as #1, and The Master's Call as #100. I'll have to think about it some more, but I might want to change to an alphabetical sequence. That would give me an alphabetical Table of Contents, and people would be able to CTRL+Click the page number to see the lyrics. I could replace the existing Index with a simple list of songs from #1-#100.

    I can only imagine the confusion and headaches when I try to achieve the new sequence.
    Lou Sander
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    USA

  12. #11
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    Actually, organising the songs into alphabetical order is pretty easy. I would recommend you do this using a copy of the file to ensure you get what you wanted.

    To do so, add the Sort... button to your quick access toolbar. Then change to outline view and show only the Level 1 paragraphs - select and click the sort button.

    HTH = Hope This Helps
    Last edited by Andrew Lockton; 2014-09-17 at 01:05.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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  14. #12
    5 Star Lounger Lou Sander's Avatar
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    Thanks to all for their help.

    The sort suggested by Andrew Lockton didn't work. But by following his suggestion to change to Outline View and show only Level 1 paragraphs, I was able to sort the songs manually. A byproduct of doing it in Outline View was that some of my troublesome section breaks were automatically straightened out.

    Adding the "Page break before" property to the Heading 1 paragraph style let me eliminate a lot of manual page breaks and problem-generating section breaks.

    Removing the page number from the cover page was as simple as selecting "Different first page" for its footer. I had done that a hundred times before, but for some reason it just escaped me this time. Sheesh!

    I now have a well-behaved document with a useful Table of Contents. It can be easily printed either one-sided with a left-hand gutter margin or two-sided with Mirror Margins. All the things that were interfering with that before have been found and corrected.

    Thanks again to all the Loungers who helped.
    Lou Sander
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    USA

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    Yippee yiyo kiyah!

    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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