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  1. #1
    2 Star Lounger artied2's Avatar
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    To defrag or not to defrag?

    Somehow, I seem to have it in the back of my mind that defraging is unnecessary on an NTFS partition. Is that correct? Do you all defrag from time to time?

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    Yes - at least I do.

    This also aids Virtual Memory as VM uses the free space on a HDD - but you don't defrag a SSD.

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    I just let Windows do what it wants.

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    WS Lounge VIP Coochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artied2 View Post
    Somehow, I seem to have it in the back of my mind that defraging is unnecessary on an NTFS partition. Is that correct? Do you all defrag from time to time?
    By default Win7 will automatically defrag HDD NTFS partitions at 1:00AM every Wednesday.

    See Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Performance Information and Tools\Advanced Tools\Open Disk Defragmenter.

    As Sudo15 says in his #2 post SSDs should not be defragged as doing so will seriously shorten their life, and there is no benefit in defragging an SSD anyhow.
    Computer Consultant/Technician since 1998 (first PC was Atari 1040STE in 1988).
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    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    If you have an SSD and your OS is Windows 8 or greater select "optimize" where the default degrag option is.
    If your SSD is properly recognized as such you will have the option to optimize as opposed to defragment.

    Normal mechanical spin drives should always be defragmented whether it's a partition or not.

    So if you've installed under W8, you don't need to do anything, it's enabled by default.
    Last edited by CLiNT; 2014-11-28 at 09:03.
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    Silver Lounger RolandJS's Avatar
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    Auslogics DiskDefrag or Piriform's Defragger EZ to configure, EZ to run; I've Piriform, then switched to Auslogics. Like Chevy or Ford, user picks.
    "Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin revisited.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coochin View Post
    By default Win7 will automatically defrag HDD NTFS partitions at 1:00AM every Wednesday
    I was using Auslogics to defrag my Windows 7 computer on Wednesday, when I came across this default for the Win7 defragger. How is this useful? Is your computer turned on at 1:00AM? mine is not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prescott View Post
    I was using Auslogics to defrag my Windows 7 computer on Wednesday, when I came across this default for the Win7 defragger. How is this useful? Is your computer turned on at 1:00AM? mine is not.
    I have the Schedule turned off and use Windows Defrag once a month prior to creating my system image or whenever I do create an image.

    I've tried a couple of 3rd party defrag programs but Windows own is the only one of those that achieves 0% Fragmentation.

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    WS Lounge VIP Coochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prescott View Post
    ...Is your computer turned on at 1:00AM? mine is not.
    My computers are turned off at about 10:00PM each night, and are turned on some time after about 7:30AM. Defrag will run after the computer is turned on after the 1:00AM Wednesday time.

    Defrag.jpg

    "WIN7PRO64 (C)" is on my SSD, so Windows does not defrag it. "DATA (D)" and "BACKUP (E)" are HDD partitions, so Windows defrags them each Wednesday.
    Computer Consultant/Technician since 1998 (first PC was Atari 1040STE in 1988).
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    WS Lounge VIP Browni's Avatar
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    interesting last couple of posts had me digging for my defrag settings.

    On my WinTP setup it runs at 3:45am and will wake the PC up to do it (assuming it is sleeping, which is normally the case for me.)

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    The default scheduled task for defrag includes "Run task as soon as possible after a scheduled start is missed".

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    Silver Lounger RolandJS's Avatar
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    I read somewhere to not turn on any laptop wake-up via Lan or software if one travels, 'cause laptop can overheat if it wakes up within a travel case. Obviously, any desktop doesn't care.

    Getting back to defrag/not defrag: one of the main reasons for defragging now-a-days, even with high-speed/write-cache harddrives, is to facilitate, to further, the success of undeleting large files.
    Last edited by RolandJS; 2014-11-29 at 03:17.
    "Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin revisited.
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    WS Lounge VIP Coochin's Avatar
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    It might help if we have a better understanding of what defragmenting is all about.

    The need to defrag arises from the way data is stored on HDDs; this is essentially a hardware issue, not a software issue, and applies irrespective of what OS or filesystem is used. The determinant factor is that the storage device has a spinning disk that is divided into storage areas (Characters, Heads, and Sectors [CHS]), and even smaller storage "Clusters".

    Back in the "good ole days" we had to be very careful when connecting a HDD that the computer's BIOS settings accurately represented the HDD's CHS parameters, but these days those parameters are automatically detected and usually are not even displayed in BIOS/UEFI.

    "Clusters" are the smallest data-storage spaces available on modern HDDs. If you install a new HDD to your computer, or re-format an existing HDD or partition you will see options re cluster-size, e.g.: 512 bytes, 4096 bytes, etc..

    When a program wants to save data to the HDD it asks the OS to save the data. The OS then begins to save the data, beginning with the next available free cluster, and continues to save the data to each next free cluster until the end of the file is reached. So the first cluster used by the file might be cluster 10,002 within the filesystem (FS), and the next available free cluster might be cluster 11,103, and so on...

    Defragmenting involves the defrag program loading each cluster of a file into memory then writing the file back to the HDD using "contiguous" (continuous) clusters, so that to load the file the HDDs read/write heads do not have to continuously move to different areas of the CHS storage area to find all the different clusters used by that file. If you think about this you should understand why defragging an HDD helps performance.

    SSDs work quite differently to HDDs, in that (mainly) they do not have, or need, "read/write heads" but work purely by "memory addressing", so do not need to be defragged. If you overrule Windows and insist on defragging an SSD then you will seriously shorten the life-expectancy of the SSD.
    Computer Consultant/Technician since 1998 (first PC was Atari 1040STE in 1988).
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    I usually defrag once a month or so. I like to update all of my programs just before doing so and use Windows updates (especially large ones) as a good time to run one afterwards. Most commercial defraggers put some space between programs to allow for file growth. In addition, I like to save my disk cleanup for after the defrag so as to hope that the newer data is reallocated to the same space. This means that I also build up my temp internet files and delete them after the defrag.

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    WS Lounge VIP Coochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldb View Post
    I usually defrag once a month or so...
    I understand your reasoning but reject much of what you say, especially re temp files. Reality is that Windows' defragmenter has developed over a period of many years, and in Win7 is very advanced compared to any 3rd-party alternative.
    Computer Consultant/Technician since 1998 (first PC was Atari 1040STE in 1988).
    Most common computing error is EBKAC: Error Between Keyboard And Chairback
    AMD FX8120 (8-core @ 3.1GHz) CPU, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-D3 motherboard, 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1866MHz RAM, ATI-AMD Radeon HD6770 PCI-E VGA, 480GB Kingston SSD, 2TB Seagate SATA3.0 HDD, ASUS DVD/RW.

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