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  1. #1
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    Black screen and instantaneous total shutdown

    Hi,

    I hope someone can shed some light on a solution to my BLACK screen, instantaneous total shutdown (only the mains power LED active), then on restart, part way through the boot process, after the Logon screen (with or without logging in) the system goes to Sleep. Restarting from Sleep mode during the boot process the Sleep process sometimes repeats, other times the boot/logon process completes satisfactory then works for a few hours - then for no apparent reason BLACK screen and total shutdown again. This does not appear to be related to the application I'm working in at the time. It's happened working in MS Word, MS Excel, MS Access, MS Outlook (all MS 2010), Market Analyst 7, Saxo Online Trader, HUBB Investor, and others.

    My system is a Lenovo ThinkPad T500 running Windows 7 64 bit Ultimate (fully updated) with 8GB RAM and a 1TB HDD.

    I've attached a copy of my Event Log for the latest sequence of these events. The Event Log entry 08-Dec 14 21:59:36 reported: "The previous system shutdown at 9:57:52 PM on 12/8/2014 was unexpected". Converting those dates/times to "real" dates times as used in the log would be 8-Dec-14 21:57:52 - but I can't see anything around that time of consequence.

    This has been going on for some time now, but is becoming more frequent and thus extremely frustrating.

    Any thoughts, clues, suggestions will be appreciated.

    In anticipation of helpful advice, thank you.

    Cheers

    Trevor

  2. #2
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    As there doesn't appear to be any other related errors in Event Viewer, this could be because of overheating and giving the vents and in some cases the keyboard a good blow out with a can of compressed air may help, but if it has been going on for some time then component damage can occur.

    Memory problems can also have an effect so try it with one RAM module and then the other as well as booting up into Safe Mode with Networking.

    The latter will isolate the Intel graphics and activate the on board VGA to eliminate those as the cause, but while it's working, go to Lenovo Support and download the Chipset and Graphics drivers - you can also do this in Safe Mode with Networking if it works better in that mode.

    HWMonitor or the free version of Speccy will show your temps and HDDScan 3.3 will give you info on your HDD.

    http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/hwmonitor.html

    https://www.piriform.com/speccy

    http://hddscan.com/
    Last edited by Sudo15; 2014-12-08 at 07:55.

  3. #3
    WS Lounge VIP Coochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BygAuldByrd View Post
    ...This has been going on for some time now, but is becoming more frequent and thus extremely frustrating...
    Sudo15 mentions overheating in his #2 post. I note your location is "Bogangar NSW" (Northern Rivers region of New South Wales). It is summer here in Australia and the temperatures have been steadily rising for the past couple of months (a couple of weeks ago it went up to low-40sC one day).

    As Sudo15 suggests, you could try blowing out dust/fluff with compressed air. You could also consider getting a "laptop cooler stand" from somewhere like Joyce Mayne, Harvey Norman, or OfficeWorks.

    CLN0015.jpg

    Thermaltake CLN0015 - should be less than AU$40
    Last edited by Coochin; 2014-12-08 at 22:42. Reason: more info
    Computer Consultant/Technician since 1998 (first PC was Atari 1040STE in 1988).
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    Hi Sudo15 and Coochin,

    Thanks for your prompt responses.

    I'm presently in Bangkok where the ambient temperatures (around 33C) are similar to those at home in Bogangar (located in northern NSW just south of the QLD border for those who have never heard of it).

    I have previously considered extreme temperature as an issue. Accordingly, I stripped the laptop of its bottom shell and cleaned out the small amount of dust found around the processor and cooling system - no discernible change.

    I'm yet to be convinced that temperature is the problem as the instantaneous shutdowns are evident even when operating in an air-conditioned room at around 24C.

    I downloaded HWMonitor, Speccy and HDDScan, none of which highlighted any issues - all seemed to be working well within temperature limits.

    I have subsequently found Core Temp 1.0 RC6 (http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/) which provides a continuous logging function to a CSV file, which I will leave running and so able to inspect the log after any future abnormal shutdowns. Note the Log file is saved in the program file location (C:\Program Files\Core Temp on my laptop).

    I also found OpenHardwareMonitor 0.6.0 Beta (http://openhardwaremonitor.org/) which also provides useful temperature data, including the ability to graph the monitored parameters (but no continuous logging function), that's if one wishes to sit and watch the charts drift along all day.

    If my further testing shows that temperature is the issue then I'll search Fortune Town IT Centre or Pantip Plaza here in Bangkok where I'm sure Ill find a "laptop cooling stand".

    Cheers

    Trevor

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    WS Lounge VIP Coochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BygAuldByrd View Post
    ...part way through the boot process, after the Logon screen (with or without logging in) the system goes to Sleep. Restarting from Sleep mode during the boot process the Sleep process sometimes repeats, other times the boot/logon process completes satisfactory then works for a few hours...
    Have you checked Control Panel\Power Options settings? (the time set for "sleep" might be too short).
    Computer Consultant/Technician since 1998 (first PC was Atari 1040STE in 1988).
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    Hi Coochin,

    I have me doubts about the Sleep Timer having an impact - on Battery (which I'm presently running without awaiting delivery a new one) it's set for "40 minutes" and "Plugged In" Never.

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    Have you tried my other suggestions as in Post #2 ?

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    Re booting and working in Safe Mode - haven't had a black screen while in Safe Mode with Networking, but then don't stay there that long as the frequency of the problem is too intermittent to allow me to stay in Safe Mode for long periods. There are things that must progress.

    All Lenovo Drivers are up to date - checked the Lenovo site last week, and again just now, and nothing needed updating as I'd done an update of all a month or so ago.

    Overnight my laptop black screened again - it was dead as the proverbial dodo when I looked in on it this morning, but has been running perfectly all day today with the CPU temperatures hovering between 65C and 80C, with the Max today below 95C, well below the 105C limit for the CPU as advised by Intel.

    I now continuously logging CPU temperatures and have Boot Logging turned on so I'll have more data to research when the "Black Screen Annihilation" next occurs.

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    WS Lounge VIP Coochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BygAuldByrd View Post
    ...Max today below 95C, well below the 105C limit for the CPU as advised by Intel....
    Actually I get really worried when CPU temp goes much above 80C, whether Intel or AMD. Something wrong there...
    Computer Consultant/Technician since 1998 (first PC was Atari 1040STE in 1988).
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    Damage could already be done because of possible prolonged overheating.

    It may be time to renew the thermal paste, but installing SpeedFan should help with the temps.
    Last edited by Sudo15; 2014-12-09 at 11:56.

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    Sounds like a heat problem. The heat sink grease dries out after ~ a year.
    Remove the heat sink. Apply plumbers silicon grease very sparingly to the processor and heat sink. Stir the white paste which is there(Beryllium oxide) into the grease. Smooth it out evenly, smash it down with the heat sink and apply the clips or locking springs.
    You do not want very much grease. It simply holds the B-Oxide.

  12. #12
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    All Lenovo Drivers are up to date - checked the Lenovo site last week, and again just now, and nothing needed updating as I'd done an update of all a month or so ago.
    Did the problem start before or after these updates? Why did you update all? Were there other problems? If problems started after, you might want to try a "rollback".

    .../Glitch

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    95C, wow, that's hot.
    For consumer electronics, if the outside sensor (external to the chip) is that hot, the chip is very hot. And hot spots inside it are even hotter.

    The given specifications assume proper heat sinking (aka specified conditions at testing). Deviate from that and the limit of 105C does not apply.

    Military products have limit at 125C, 20 degrees higher. I use this as a guide.
    For consumer products, I would limit the heat sink at 60C. 80C is really uneasy. 75C OK. My 2 cents.

    You have to know the sensor sensing what.
    Mostly it is sensing the heat sink.

    Some programs simply add/subtract to elevate/decrease the display temperatures, to 'calibrate' to the expected numbers. How that is 'calibrated' we need to know. Otherwise the numbers are a rough guide only.

    At 95C, I agree you have a heat problem. As said too, damage may have been done.
    However, all cpu have built-in temperature shutdown to protect itself (except a few generations in the past). CPU life maybe shorten, it will still work for a long time, just not as long. By that time, maybe you're using a brand new Windows 11 machine anyway.

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    There may be value in checking the power supply too. It could cause these symptoms if failing when it warms up.
    Also, connections and circuit leads on the motherboard or video board can intermittently open when heat is applied and re-close upon cooling, causing similar black screen deaths.
    I do agree that this sounds like a heat-related problem of some kind.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    CPU temperatures hovering between 65C and 80C, with the Max today below 95C, well below the 105C limit for the CPU as advised by Intel.
    That would be a concern to me, especially if that's what you're getting in doors with A/C on.
    Generally the CPU will throttle if the temp is too high, possibly black screen too.
    I would avoid extensive use outdoors where high temperature and humidity is present.

    Get a cooling plate and power off completely when not in use instead of sleepmode, then retest for a few days.
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