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  1. #1
    Silver Lounger RolandJS's Avatar
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    AMI Aptio F6 BIOS [Antec VSK3000E desktop] Win7Pro [Retail]

    1/2/2015: Added the below in the first original post to avoid "forcing everybody" to the bottom of this thread.

    AMI Aptio F6 BIOS [Antec VSK3000E desktop] Win7Pro [Retail]

    I have AMI Aptio F6 BIOS in my Antec VSK3000E desktop, running Windows 7 Professional [Retail, not OEM]. Belarc reports: Boot Mode: Legacy BIOS in UEFI & UEFI: American Megatrends Inc. F6 08/03/2013 & Board: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. Q87M-D2H.
    I have tweaked UEFI/BIOS combine to reflect as much BIOS as possible.

    My question concerns the three Boot Options, and the Boot Options Priority; apparently within the Legacy-BIOS portion.

    I would like to set Boot Options to:
    external USB FD
    external USB CD\DVD device
    external USB stick [bootable]
    internal CD\DVD reader/writer [also has BluRay playing ability]
    internal CD\DVD reader/writer [does not have BluRay playing ability]
    internal hard-drive [has System Reserved partition, Cdrive partition, Ddrive partition]

    Because I do not at all understand the choices that are found in the Options and Priority blocks, I have no idea on how to "write" the above 6 choices into Boot Options and Boot Options Priority.


    ----------------------original post-------------------------------
    My desktop has Windows 7 Pro and American Megatrend UEFI/BIOS. I have some questions for youse all who know about UEFI and BIOS settings. I placed my question-set here because I'm interested in maximizing safety, stability within my paid-for Microsoft Windows 7 Professional OS.

    Question: If UEFI's main advantage is in the Secure Boot, what devices [USB FD, USB stick, internal or external CD/DVD, network card, hard-drive] can boot the desktop, then I really do not want UEFI? Are any other reasons to have UEFI?
    Question: If I decide to have only UEFI, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?
    Question: If I decide to have only BIOS, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?
    I'll stop here, I will follow this thread closely in bitsNpieces.
    Last edited by RolandJS; 2015-01-03 at 15:00.
    "Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin revisited.
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  2. #2
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    I really do not want UEFI? Are any other reasons to have UEFI?
    UEFI is BETTER than the old time BIOS. It offers much more config settings than BIOS and in an easier way to get at it.
    If you are purchasing a new machine you will not have any choice. UEFI is in your future.

    Question: If I decide to have only UEFI, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?
    You're not understanding UEFI. There are no specific "settings", neither are there any in BIOS.
    If it's safty you are thinking of, then only disable secure boot when a boot repair or config is needed.

    Question: If I decide to have only BIOS, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?
    You can keep your BIOS only for as long as you have a BIOS based motherboard, and
    they are going away fast.


    If you want to maximize safety and stability in UEFI:
    1. Stability: Don't overclock your system.
    2. Safety: Disable fast/secure boot only when needed, then re-enable.
    3. Leave your partitions alone.
    4. Set your OS up with a log-on password
    5. Set UEFI access up with a password (optional-not neccessary).
    Last edited by CLiNT; 2014-12-14 at 00:39.
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  3. #3
    WS Lounge VIP Coochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJS View Post
    ...Question: If UEFI's main advantage is in the Secure Boot, what devices [USB FD, USB stick, internal or external CD/DVD, network card, hard-drive] can boot the desktop, then I really do not want UEFI?...
    UEFI's "secure boot" feature pretty-much rules out booting from any device other than the primary (master) HDD.

    So the simple answer to your "then I really do not want UEFI?" question is "No, you probably don't need or want UEFI's 'Secure Boot' feature.

    AFAIK from what I have come to understand about UEFI, its main rationale is to make it much more difficult for an intruder (malicious co-worker, prankster, data harvester) to gain access to the system by bypassing any security measures applied.

    I.e.: with the traditional BIOS it was quite easy for a knowledgable intruder to gain access, even if a BIOS password had been set. UEFI makes it much more difficult to gain access to low-level settings.

    UEFI has advantages for those who operate in corporate/company network environments, but for the average home user it is hard to see any real advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJS View Post
    ...Are any other reasons to have UEFI?...
    Maybe a slightly faster boot time, otherwise none.

    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJS View Post
    ...Question: If I decide to have only UEFI, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?
    ...
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJS View Post
    ...
    Question: If I decide to have only BIOS, are there any settings you would recommend based on your experience?...
    Yes. Turn off "Secure Boot" and choose "legacy boot" settings that allow you to boot from devices other than just the primary HDD.

    NOTE: the above assumes that the computer is located in a secure environment (such as a home or a constantly-supervised office); i.e.: in normal circumstances an unauthorised casual intruder could not gain physical access to the computer.
    Last edited by Coochin; 2014-12-14 at 05:21.
    Computer Consultant/Technician since 1998 (first PC was Atari 1040STE in 1988).
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  4. #4
    Silver Lounger RolandJS's Avatar
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    Thanks to you both for such informative comments! My biggest objection to UEFI is that I cannot at all understand the three boot options and their respective sub-menus. In legacy, I clearly understand 1-2-3-4 order of boot, I can "move up/move down" the choices to suit.
    "Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin revisited.
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    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Your motherboard has a combination UEFI/BIOS selection, which many had in the transition period to UEFI. However, you cannot use both; it's an either/or situation. Your desktop is most likely BIOS/MBR enabled.

    UEFI works only with GPT partitions, BIOS works with MBR partitions. A HDD can be partitioned in one or the other, but not both. Windows cannot boot directly from GPT, hence the small EFI partition (formatted FAT32) that is required for Windows on a GPT system. UEFI boots the EFI partition, and the EFI partition then boots Windows.

    So, if your system is MBR/BIOS, you cannot change to UEFI simply by selecting it in Settings; it is considerably more complex than that. The thread Adventures with UEFI is a synopsis of converting my laptop from BIOS to UEFI. Backing into a dual boot in UEFI has some additional information that might be useful.

    All OEM machines with Windows 8/8.1 pre-installed are UEFI/GPT with Secure Boot enabled (a Microsoft requirement). I doubt if there are any BIOS/UEFI motherboards being made anymore. I'm fairly certain that they are all strictly UEFI by now.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

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    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    Thanks bbearen.
    So if you have one of those dual motherboards just stick with BIOS,
    because the implementation of UEFI on these boards are piecemeal at best.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
    Latest Build:
    ASUS X99 Deluxe, Core i7-5960X, Corsair Hydro H100i, Plextor M6e 256GB M.2 SSD, Corsair DOMINATOR Platinum 32GB DDR4@2666, W8.1 64 bit,
    EVGA GTX980, Seasonic PLATINUM-1000W PSU, MountainMods U2-UFO Case, and 7 other internal drives.

  7. #7
    Silver Lounger RolandJS's Avatar
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    bios version, date, id and boot option priorities pics

    Here is the BIOS version, date & ID; and the Boot Option Priorities [1st screen]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin revisited.
    http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forum...-Technologies/

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    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Q87M-D2H is a Gigabyte motherboard version number. 8A02AG0Y doesn't return any search hits, and "not found" on the American Megatrends support page.

    Open an elevated Command Prompt, open DISKPART, then list disk. In the resulting table, if your system is UEFI, you will see a column for GPT on the far right, and an asterisk for each disk that is GPT. If there are no asterisks, or the GPT heading is not shown, your system is BIOS/MBR.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

  9. #9
    Silver Lounger RolandJS's Avatar
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    In another BIOS, it was simple to specify: usb fd, usb stick, usb cd/dvd, hard-drive, network card.

    In my current AMI BIOS, Boot Option Priorities, Options 1, 2 & 3 pretty much have similar choices.

    I simply do not understand 3 of 4 choices, I do not know how to fix Options 1,2,3 nor the others below.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by RolandJS; 2014-12-15 at 06:33.
    "Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin revisited.
    http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forum...-Technologies/

  10. #10
    Silver Lounger RolandJS's Avatar
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    I think this is an overview of the six options I have...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin revisited.
    http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forum...-Technologies/

  11. #11
    Silver Lounger wavy's Avatar
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    UEFI works only with GPT partitions
    I am not sure you really meant to say what it sounds like you are saying (at least to me); which is a MBR boot drive can not be used with a UEFI . UEFI has a backwords compatibility with MBR drives. Not all the features maybe available and an MBR drive is still size limited.
    David

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  12. #12
    Silver Lounger RolandJS's Avatar
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    bbearren, my diskpart within admin dos-box does not give me anything but the list of available switches. I just now remembered I didn't post this, until now.
    "Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin revisited.
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  13. #13
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wavy View Post
    I am not sure you really meant to say what it sounds like you are saying (at least to me); which is a MBR boot drive can not be used with a UEFI . UEFI has a backwords compatibility with MBR drives. Not all the features maybe available and an MBR drive is still size limited.
    It depends on the implementation of UEFI by the motherboard manufacturer (and on Microsoft). From Wikipedia, "For backwards compatibility, most of the UEFI implementations also support booting from MBR-partitioned disks, through the Compatibility Support Module (CSM) which provides legacy BIOS compatibility."

    However, that bypasses many UEFI capabilities, not just the advantages of GPT. In other words, it is no longer UEFI, it is for all practical purposes, BIOS. UEFI can read files from the EFI partition on a GPT disk; there is no such capability in BIOS/MBR compatibility. In UEFI with an MBR disk, the machine won't boot, and "no boot device" will be the error. UEFI is looking for an EFI System Partition on the hard disk for bootloader directions.

    And again, from Wikipedia, "With the release of Windows 8 in October 2012, Microsoft's certification requirements now require that computers include firmware that implements the UEFI specification. Furthermore, if the computer supports the "Connected Standby" feature of Windows 8 (which allows devices to have power management comparable to smartphones, with an almost instantaneous return from standby mode), then the firmware is not permitted to contain a Compatibility Support Module (CSM). As such, systems that support Connected Standby are incapable of booting Legacy BIOS operating systems."
    Last edited by bbearren; 2014-12-16 at 23:21.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

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    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJS View Post
    bbearren, my diskpart within admin dos-box does not give me anything but the list of available switches. I just now remembered I didn't post this, until now.
    DISKPART has to load from an elevated command prompt (right-click Command Prompt and select "Run as administrator"); type "diskpart" (without the quotes), and wait for it to load. Then you will get a DISKPART prompt. Next type "list disk" (without the quotes). That will show any GPT disk (as seen in the graphic; there is no disc in my optical drive, so diskpart doesn't list it).

    DISKPART.PNG
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

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    Silver Lounger wavy's Avatar
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    Furthermore, if the computer supports the "Connected Standby" feature of Windows 8 (which allows devices to have power management comparable to smartphones, with an almost instantaneous return from standby mode), then the firmware is not permitted to contain a Compatibility Support Module (CSM). As such, systems that support Connected Standby are incapable of booting Legacy BIOS operating systems."
    I guess we knew they were headed there..

    Also interesting..
    There are additional security-specific requirements, for example for memory to be soldered to the motherboard to prevent cold boot attack vectors that involve removing memory from the machine, as well as support for Secure Boot.

    David

    Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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