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  1. #1
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    Deleting headers and footers

    Working in MS word 10 (Win 7), I'm finishing up a 350 pg book. Headers & Footers are not right so I am deleting all, cleaning up page and section breaks and praying I can start fresh and they will be right.

    some headers won't delete. Can anyone tell me possible reasons?

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    Are you revision tracking? That is the most likely reason why you might have problems deleting a header.

    If you need to clean up the document, delete EVERY section break and get the page setup and headers right before re-inserting section breaks where you need them.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
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    Every section potentially has three headers and three footers. If link to previous is checked, these may be set in a previous section even though not displayed.
    http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide...ooter_settings
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

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    Thanks Andrew and Charles for your comments. I have removed all section breaks, and all headers and footers. Andrew could you say more about being sure H & F are right before I put section breaks back in? I'm thinking I need the section breaks to change the left header. and to change page no. format from front matter to body. I'm doing ch. title on left, book title on the right. Pg nos bottom outside.

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    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
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    There is no "left" header. There are odd and even headers. These can be reflected on the left and right when you add mirror margins.
    This page on Front Matter gives directions for setting up the page numbering.
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

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    Thanks for the referral to pagination. Very helpful. So, my 350 pg ms. in Word 10 is coming along. The page numbers are great: i - xix in the front matter, 1-330 in body. The recto headers are set, looking good. Now the problem. I reinserted the section breaks. I'm working on the verso pgs with chapter names. The link to previous is greyed out. Any idea why?

  7. #7
    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
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    No clue. Thought, though... When you are seeing this is there any chance your insertion point is inside a Frame, Textbox or Table?

    I gave you a link to my page on Sections. You might also want to look at Working with Sections.
    Last edited by Charles Kenyon; 2015-01-31 at 19:43.
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

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    The link to previous is usually greyed out when you are in the first section (since there isn't a previous one).

    I haven't seen any cases where it greyed out on other sections so if this is happening for you perhaps you could post a document that demonstrates the problem.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    The greyed out link to previous was as you thought: a missing section break. I feel close to getting this ms. corrected, recto header went great for first four chapters. Each remained as it should be as I progressed. Now Ch. 5 changes everything before it. I'm thinking it has something to do with Word working headers back to front. I don't see what's different from this chapter opening compared to the 1st four. I did however, start at the end matter at first to put in the rectos. That wasn't working so I started working front to back. (If you recall, this is a clean up project on headers/footers.)
    I'll look at "working with sections" but would also appreciate your ideas. . . . thanks for helping me with this.

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    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
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    You are correct that Word works header and footer settings back to front in that inserting a section break sets off the section before the break.

    If you change a header that is linked to previous, it changes the header in the previous section as well. If you break the link in section 3, then a change in the header for section 2 will not change the header is section 3 and vice versa. If you have different headers and then link section 3 again, section 2 will adopt the header in section 3 via the link.
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

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    When I realized what was happening I thought I had a still hidden break and removed Ch. 5 break. Then reinserted it.

    So, does that mean I need to remove the section breaks and start again?

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    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
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    No, don't go removing section breaks! Put breaks between sections as needed. Then go to the last one that you want formatted differently. Go into the header and break the link with previous. Set it up.

    Move forward to the next section and repeat as needed.
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

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    How is this book going to be published? It sounds like you need a proper structured document writer rather than Word. For example, you should be able to specify that chapters always start on an odd page and it will do it without your needing to insert page breaks manually. Word is pretty hopeless at that sort of thing (you can set a style to put a page break before, but not specify a start on an odd or even page), and won't output provisional quality typesetting either, e.g. it doesn't suppress space before paragraphs at the top of pages. You really shouldn't have to mess about changing section and page breaks manually. What if the publisher changes the paper size from what you have assumed? All that manual pagination will be useless. You need to set the function of each division of your text -- chapter / section etc -- and let the software sort out the formatting.

    That said, I cannot recommend a WYSIWYG structured document writer to the OP. Has anyone got any recommendations as I want one myself?
    Last edited by arowland; 2015-02-05 at 05:37.

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    Arowland

    There is a very big difference between "Word can't do" and "I don't know how to make Word do". Yes, Word is not a page layout program but the when it comes to authoring content it is the market leader by a massive margin. You raise a good point about the usefulness of an 'odd/even page break before' setting. That would be a welcome feature to a very small group of users (and would avoid the need for a section break) but often users would also require page numbering to also restart (requiring a section break) and maybe a 'page intentionally blank' (requiring manual or macro intervention).

    The software alternatives are a bit thin on the ground however. I don't know of any software that deals with this automatically. I've used about 6 different page layout programs and have never seen a feature that deals with the variety of new chapter options that a book publisher might want. However, it is not something I've done a lot of so they could have very slick implementations that I haven't seen.

    IMO, Word is the tool of choice for authoring, and if you choose to do the publishing from the same software, the various new chapter options can be handled with the judicious use of macros. Going to another software package for publishing is (more expensive and) time consuming and offers no quick solution. Newer database-type tools that separate content from formatting such as Madcap Flare are worth exploring if you are really keen but any solution is going to need a lot of customisation to do 'what you want' since there is massive variation in book publishing.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Lockton View Post
    There is a very big difference between "Word can't do" and "I don't know how to make Word do".
    Rebuke accepted. Chapters starting on odd or even pages can be done with sections, I have discovered, but the fact that it is far from intuitive and took some Googling to find does support my argument that Word is far from ideal as a document processor. It has no concept of 'chapters' (for example) so it all has to be kludged with manual changes which, if the structure changes in some way, have to be removed and re-kludged as the OP found when he repaginated.
    Another example, that bugs me far more often than the chapter issue, is lists. For a professional appearance I want a certain amount of leading after a list. I have to kludge it by expanding the 'space after' of the last paragraph in the list, and if I later need to add a further item to the end of the list, I have to remove the kludge and kludge the new last item. I find myself doing this all the time, even in relatively short documents. And all because Word does not let you assign things like 'space after' to a list as a structure. Even less does it let you assign all the properties of a structure like a chapter, section or subsection in one place, so that you define a section, for example, as having a certain paragraph style for the heading, another for the body, define which page it starts on or whether it is continuous, whether numbering restarts and so on. Instead we have to do it manually for each new section, which is error prone and any changes have to be applied to every section individually. It is a word processor, not a document processor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Lockton View Post
    The software alternatives are a bit thin on the ground however... IMO, Word is the tool of choice for authoring... Newer database-type tools that separate content from formatting such as Madcap Flare are worth exploring if you are really keen...
    Alas. I certainly can't afford what Flare costs for my modest usage. Thank you for your suggestion, though. I have investigated Lyx but it has a steep learning curve and cannot rival EasiWriter which I remember from my Acorn days (and is still available for RiscOS from Icon Technology). It showed that an easy to use, intuitive document processor that can span the range of 'type and go' wordprocessing for a one page letter through to a complex structured technical manual is possible. This is a big gap in the market. But the sheer power of Word's stranglehold, so that even the alternatives are just imitations of it, seems to have deterred anyone from attempting to sell an alternative at anything less than corporate pricing.
    Last edited by arowland; 2015-02-07 at 11:49.

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