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  1. #1
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    Switching OSes is almost never the answer to problems


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    Couldn't agree more. If I can draw a parallel: someone posts on a forum for advice with a problem with Internet Explorer. Umpteen people then chip in with "Ditch it and install Firefox/Chrome/Opera/Maxthon". Which doesn't solve the problem at all, especially if the OP likes IE (well, it takes all sorts). And it's not for us to say what browser anyone should use; same with OSs.

    [/rant]

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    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
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    Another reason a LOT of people are still kicking & screaming about XP ( although many, like me, finally moved on to win 7 ).

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    WS Lounge VIP Browni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyl View Post
    Couldn't agree more. If I can draw a parallel: someone posts on a forum for advice with a problem with Internet Explorer. Umpteen people then chip in with "Ditch it and install Firefox/Chrome/Opera/Maxthon". Which doesn't solve the problem at all, especially if the OP likes IE (well, it takes all sorts). And it's not for us to say what browser anyone should use; same with OSs.

    [/rant]
    Another parallel, ditch Outlook and use Thunderbird!

  5. #5
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    In the workplace there are system admins who look after the dirty work of maintaining systems, so everything in the article and the argument applies to home or lone users who try to maintain the system themselves, and who might have their car fixed at a shop but who won’t take their computer to a shop. This mindset is perpetuated by fix-it web sites on the internet and by computer magazines.

    The internet is a source of extensive help, some of it unreliable, and the marketplace is jammed with utilities, some of which are snake oil. If you have a connection, the internet is the first place to look for help, but once you there you tend to forget the repair shops (unless you purchased an extended warranty, which is generally uneconomic). If you are getting nowhere, either take it to a shop or install another system.

    I recently recommended Linux in a thread in which the user had a computer that was so far gone, after plenty of posts of advice from others, that he had decided to dump it. A dual-boot installation, or running it live from USB or DVD, would preserve his messed up Windows while giving him the means to view, recover data from his messed-up Windows, and troubleshoot, as well as giving him a fully functional system with a full complement of applications. I suggested that if on the road, the quickest cure is to buy a Linux magazine with a DVD in it. Run it live and you have a functioning system within minutes. I think Windows repair people typically have Linux on a flash drive.

    The postscript is that I went to a local big bookstore and found half a dozen Linux magazines, all published in the UK and possibly not available in all markets. I bought two that interested me, both with DVDs, one of which has Knoppix (never heard of it) with the slogan ‘Troubleshoot broken Windows and Linux Systems’. I also installed Mint 17.1 on one computer.

  6. #6
    5 Star Lounger RussB's Avatar
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    Apple users never have that problem!
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    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    I really don't think that browsers/email client issues have a parallel here unless you use an alternative OS to troubleshoot/rule out a hardware issue and equate that to using a alt. browser/email client to rule out sections of Windows, IE, security programs, etc.

    Almost all browsers/email clients use a large number of Windows files, a couple of IE files, use the IE connection settings (by default, at least), and are interfered with in similar ways by security software, etc. I consider it a valid test to use an alt. software for a number of potential browser/email problems.

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    Funny I am ditching Windows for Linux in about a month when the new laptop gets in.

    Though my issues with Redmond primarily have to do with the amount of control they have always wanted over their users and the obvious mandating of MS Store use in the immediate future.

    But yes, the transition won't be painless and frustration is gonna be in the air for a while. But from what I can see, Linux does everything I want, I already use it on some levels and if I really need Windows there is always virtualization.

    It is not like I haven't been down this road before: DOS 2.0>DOS3.3+4DOS>DR-DOS 5>OS/2 2.0+4OS/2>Win98SE>XP>Win7 ... with updates/upgrades and experimenting with other OS' in between. Hopefully this time Linux will work out for me.
    Last edited by Fascist Nation; 2015-04-22 at 19:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascist Nation View Post
    ... and the obvious mandating of MS Store use in the immediate future.
    Not so obvious to me: Is the Store more mandated for Windows 10 than Windows 8?

  10. #10
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    Not really the store but more reliance on Metro/Universal/Store apps like Spartan and the migration of Control Panel applets. Doesn't bother me much as I ignore Spartan and the Control Apps are usable. in my use, I don't see much difference except I gets few Metro apps (games and the News app) as a free bonus. But to each his own.

    Jerry

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    I find the OS changing particularly puzzling when the reason to move is Windows having changed and having an horrible new UI and such and then you go and replace a known OS with some partially new UI by an unknown OS with a completely new UI. Does this make sense?

    I don't think changing browsers compares to this. I changed from being an IE only user to being an IE hater (yes, I totally loath IE). It was virtually painless and I don't miss IE a bit. Learning how to use a new browser is a lot easier than learning to use a completely new OS and fact is, IE is a big source of problems for many Windows users. I have never experienced any serious users with my now regular browser (Chrome) that I had with IE. In this respect, it's not surprising how Microsoft itself is ditching IE for Spartan and keeping IE mainly for the enterprise scenarios.

    Having started my career being a Unix user (spent a good few years developing in Unix before there was even a Linux), switching to Windows was not really hard. I dabbled with Linux a few years back again and that feeling of being in a totally new environment without any known ground to hold on to, is not comparable to what I experienced when I changed browsers.

    As to the Stores, I wouldn't be surprised if Linux featured one in the future. Every other major OS went there...
    Rui
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  12. #12
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    My post was intended to troubleshoot specified problem(s), and not to recommend any operating system for normal use.

    ‘Down time’ is expensive, and it is more so if your computer is down while ‘on the road’. It costs a fortune for those of us who do not enjoy the luxury of having a sys admin to look them it for us. Linux is a standard tool for troubleshooting Windows. If your system is down and you are trying to fix it, then try Linux with troubleshooting software. If you don’t have expensive time or knowhow to fix it, then Linux may still save the day.

    Linux can give you a complete system in a short time, especially if you have it with you, and above all if you have familiarized yourself with it beforehand, and better still if you have customized it. The most popular versions seem to be Mint and Ubuntu; I think they share the same suite (LibreOffice), so if you were working in Office on a Windows computer that went down, you can easily continue in the corresponding equivalent in Linux. There may be different ways of doing things, but it’s still just a glorified typewriter and all that. After the crisis, you can still go back to Windows. For that matter, you can install LibreOffice in Windows and learn it there – before the crisis, that is.

    If you are a ‘strictly Windows’ person, then you can even have that with you on the road, with Windows To Go. Or, if you have a spare drive and a standard screwdriver set, you can clone a ‘known good’ drive before leaving and take that with you, to use as a straight replacement.

  13. #13
    5 Star Lounger RussB's Avatar
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    Comparing an OS to an Application is akin to the proverbial "Apples to Oranges" argument. They have two different purposes.
    Just because some like to make using the WWW similar to using one's own computer does not make it so. These also are two different fields of data and IMHO need to be kept separate if for no other reason privacy and security.

    I still miss Netscape and DOS! ("...but I can change if I have to")
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruirib View Post

    As to the Stores, I wouldn't be surprised if Linux featured one in the future. Every other major OS went there...
    Most Linux distros have effectively had a 'Store' for years – a version based ‘software centre’ or ‘software manager’ where available Linux software known to work on that version is listed for download, along with user comments about it. The main difference to ‘other app stores’ is that everything is free!

    Ruirib, if you haven’t tried Linux for a few years, it’s come on a bundle recently and you may find a look at Linux Mint17.1 (mate) interesting. Visually, and functionally, not a million miles from Win7.

    I’m still mostly a Windows man myself but my dedicated Win10 pre-view system does not fill me with confidence that Microsoft have risen above the Win8 debacle – especially if Win10 is due for release in July 2015, as is now predicted.

    I’m still trying to find time to have a play around with RoboLinux, which claims to be able to run Windows and ALL Windows software in a SecureVM that you can just flip in and out of. The speed increase of being able to run Windows without AV should compensate for any VM limitations. I tried the initial version, which turned into a bit of a head scratcher for me, but it appears that Robo has now polished its act.

    Wouldn’t that be great? – we could all stop grinding on about which OS is best!
    Remember rule #1: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

    Industrial electrical engineer, running a system building/repair business in Cornwall UK, for the last 15 years.

    Built my first computer in 1978 - in the days when you had to hand-solder in all the components
    and 16k RAM was considered extravagant!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Cooper View Post
    Ruirib, if you haven’t tried Linux for a few years, it’s come on a bundle recently and you may find a look at Linux Mint17.1 (mate) interesting. Visually, and functionally, not a million miles from Win7.
    Well, I really don't need to go Linux. Windows 8 works fine for me, the most stable version I ever used. Haven't touched Windows 10, no play time, this time, so I will defer my option until I have some time to work with it, which will only be after the release.

    My own work is done in Windows with mostly Microsoft tools - Visual Studio, SQL Server and developing Windows and web apps.The former can be done anywhere, but wouldn't really make sense to start anew... Thanks for the advice, though .
    Rui
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