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  1. #1
    Ken Kashmarek
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    Thumbs down Windows 10 shares WiFi passwords

    Windows 10 will share your Wi-Fi key with your friends' friends

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06...0_wi_fi_sense/

    Well, here is a new one for you. We are all told to secure our WiFi configurations. Then, once we do, if you don't opt out. Windows 10 will unsecure it for you. Read the article.

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    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Ken,

    Looks like another argument for Local Account vs MS Account as your login.
    WIFISense.JPG
    HTH
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredGeek View Post
    Ken,

    Looks like another argument for Local Account vs MS Account as your login.
    WIFISense.JPG
    HTH
    Or you can just turn the sharing setting off, as I have it on my Windows Phone?

    I must say that I always like the certainty with which some tech press makes some assertions. Here the case is , of course, on that fact that Windows 10 bring this on by default because, as everybody knows, Windows 10 has already been released.

    I will also add that I don't know how this will work on Windows 10 (haven't dabbled with Windows 10 yet), but on Windows Phone, you need to do a lot more than setting the sharing on (it is off by default). You also need to explicitly choose which networks you want to share and some sharing settings. I don't really see it as the doomsday scenario depicted here, because it is not, on Windows Phone, despite the snarky assertion made on the article, which makes me even more admiring of the quality of the article and the good faith of its author.

    I guess with Windows 10, we also don't know how it will work. We will need to check out it comes out, in the release version. Anyone with Windows 10 installed can also describe how this is handled now, I can't really tell, as I explained.
    Rui
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Kashmarek View Post
    Windows 10 will share your Wi-Fi key with your friends' friends
    You share with your contacts, but not their contacts.
    The networks you share aren't shared with your contacts' contacts.
    If your contacts want to share one of your networks with their contacts, they'd need to know your actual password and type it in to share the network.

    Wi-Fi Sense FAQ (I'm concerned about sharing Wi-Fi networks. Can you tell me a little more?)

  5. #5
    Ken Kashmarek
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    "You share with your contacts, but not their contacts.
    The networks you share aren't shared with your contacts' contacts."

    At this URL:

    http://www.howtogeek.com/219700/what...ebook-account/

    I found this material:
    --------------------------
    What If You Don’t Want Your Wi-Fi Connection Passphrase Shared?

    You might not want to use Wi-Fi Sense. Bear in mind that the sharing is indiscriminate — if you use it, it will share access to your Wi-Fi with all of your Facebook friends without letting you pick and choose who gets access.

    If someone connects to your network with a Windows 10 device, they can choose to share the connection details with all their friends — at least those friends using Windows 10. You can choose to opt out of this by changing your wireless network name, or SSID, to end with _optout. In other words, if your network name is currently “HomeNetwork”, Microsoft would like you to change the name to “HomeNetwork_optout” to opt out.
    ----------------------------
    According to the post at that URL, you don't share with your friend's friends. You allow your friends do that sharing for you.

    And suppose you did share. Now, you want to stop that sharing. The Microsoft technique means you have to change the name of your WiFi (adding the '_optout' suffix). That may also mean you have to change the name for your own use by adding the same suffix to those definitions on your own devices, be they Win10 or otherwise (though that is unclear yet). In any case, if you share (intentionally or not), and then remove that sharing, you should change your WiFi network password as the best measure to block unwanted access.

    I have a desktop workstation with a built-in WiFi adapter. That adapter is not configured for use (was not configured by the install of Win10TP or build 10130; I am on the slow ring). So, since it is not really needed because this node has a wired connection, I won't be configuring it under Win10.

    But really, why is this considered some type of feature at all? Nobody needs it. Many get it activated because they are allowing the Microsoft default to run its course. This just isn't necessary. All the networking and communications work just fine without WiFi Sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Kashmarek View Post
    According to the post at that URL, you don't share with your friend's friends. You allow your friends do that sharing for you.
    Friends can't share your internet access to their friends unless they know the password (as shown in the second screen shot on that page).


    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Kashmarek View Post
    And suppose you did share. Now, you want to stop that sharing.
    To stop sharing access to a Wi-Fi network
    1.Go to Settings > Wi-Fi > Manage.
    2.Under Known networks, tap and hold the network that you want to stop sharing access to, and then tap Do not share.

    If you want to stop sharing all Wi-Fi networks that you're currently sharing, in Settings > Wi-Fi > Wi-Fi Sense, turn off Share Wi-Fi networks I select.


    Wi-Fi Sense FAQ (I'm sharing a network and want to stop it. How do I do that?)

  7. #7
    Ken Kashmarek
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    Update: the original posted item adds this to their web page after being confronted by by Microsoft about discussion items that have been mentioned above:

    --------------------------------------
    Updated to add

    A Microsoft PR rep has been in touch about the headline, pointing out that when you share access to your network via Wi-Fi Sense, your contacts cannot share that access to other people. We know this.

    The headline still stands because: imagine you and I are friends, and you visit my house. I tell you the Wi-Fi password, or you read it off the fridge. You type it into your Windows 10 device, and access to my network is shared via Wi-Fi Sense with your Windows 10 friends. Your friends now have access to my network, or in other words, my friend's friends now have access to the network.

    And that's not good.
    ----------------------------------------

    Good or bad...you decide.

  8. #8
    Ken Kashmarek
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    By the way, if you are looking for a reason that Microsoft WiFi Sense even exists, then check out this web page:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/03/micrsoft_wifi/

    From that Register page:

    "We can confirm that we are working on a new service, called Microsoft Wi-Fi, that will bring hassle-free Wi-Fi to millions. We look forward to sharing additional detail when available..."

    WiFi Sense appears to bolster this new offering, and perhaps with hopes to extend the functionality to more than just "millions."

    That might be great if WiFi Sense were a way to get around all that data collection that goes on across the web.

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    Question Is WiFi Sense an issue for Business IT in view of BYOD?

    So with WiFi Sense, Sally can give Billy access to her WiFi, and then whenever one of Billy's friends (Facebook, Contacts, whatever) visits Sally they automatically have access to her WiFi also, without any effort or even knowledge on Sally's part. Right? Convenient. Cool. OK, got that.

    Now suppose "Sally" is instead a business. Let's say an employee of Sally, Inc., with the best of intentions, gives access to the company WiFi to a visitor/prospect/client/vendor, "Billy." Or worse, suppose Billy is an employee or executive of Sally Inc., and has access to the company WiFi under the company's Bring Your Own Device policy. Now all Billy's friends, whether business or personal, will have access to the Sally Inc. WiFi network. In an urban area, all they need to do is drive by. If I am the CIO of Sally Inc., I am livid!

    If this is the way it works, IT folks should be posting alarms in every blog, newsletter and trade pub. Please tell me there is something about WiFi Sense that I don't understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecvanhorn View Post
    Now suppose "Sally" is instead a business. Let's say an employee of Sally, Inc., with the best of intentions, gives access to the company WiFi to a visitor/prospect/client/vendor, "Billy." Or worse, suppose Billy is an employee or executive of Sally Inc., and has access to the company WiFi under the company's Bring Your Own Device policy. Now all Billy's friends, whether business or personal, will have access to the Sally Inc. WiFi network. In an urban area, all they need to do is drive by. If I am the CIO of Sally Inc., I am livid!

    If this is the way it works, IT folks should be posting alarms in every blog, newsletter and trade pub. Please tell me there is something about WiFi Sense that I don't understand.
    I'm not certain to what extent this business proviso answers that concern; mostly?:

    Enterprise networks that use 802.1X can't be shared. If you connect to one of these enterprise networks at work or somewhere else, those network credentials won't be shared with any of your contacts.
    Wi-Fi Sense FAQ
    Last edited by BruceR; 2015-07-20 at 19:16.

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  12. #11
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    Cool. lol Keep making fun of my switching to Linux. I have faith in MS. Ask them to apply some Vaseline first. A little over a week before the fun begins.

    From what I read though from that FAQ letting all your Facebook friends have access, etc. is an option. You can just as easily share such access with specific individuals instead. And you are assured that they will not have access to your password. Their contacts will not have access to your wifi unless you give it to them as well.

    I hope MS hits a home run and in a lot of ways it looks like they might. The release looks like it will be pretty much what the beta started out as (not counting Edge) and that is a good thing---it means they did not have significant issues with one or more modules, that they decided to chuck in the name of meeting some arbitrarily set timeline. But I just can't shake the feeling that MS just can't help themselves....

    Those of you who figure you can wait until Christmas or later to decide are wise. Let others be your beta tester. You have a year for MS to get it right.
    Last edited by Fascist Nation; 2015-07-20 at 19:14.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceR View Post
    I'm not certain to what extent this business proviso answers that concern; mostly?:

    Enterprise networks that use 802.1X can't be shared. If you connect to one of these enterprise networks at work or somewhere else, those network credentials won't be shared with any of your contacts.
    Wi-Fi Sense FAQ
    Thanks. That restriction answers the major objection from large corporate IT. However there are many small businesses that do not have the resources to use 802.1X, and instead use plain old shared password security like a home network. These folks are still vulnerable to the sharing of access via WiFi Sense.

    However, the link you provided contains the following additional information in one of the FAQs:

    "When you share network access, your contacts get Internet access only. For example, if you share your home Wi-Fi network, your contacts won't have access to other computers, devices, or files stored on your home network."

    That's good. So the risk to small businesses is just theft-of-bandwidth, not theft of data. All this assumes that these provisions are tightly implemented, without security holes, which is a big assumption these days. As an IT service provider to small businesses, I will caution my clients about this, and encourage adding "_optout" to the SSID, which I understand blocks this access sharing "feature."

    HAND

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    How is Guest-only access implemented?

    When Wi-Fi Sense makes a connection to a shared, password-protected network (as opposed to a crowd-sourced open network), how is the access limited to the Internet only and not to other devices on the LAN? I my experience, that requires proper configuration of the router for "guest" access. How does Microsoft accomplish this?

    BTW, here is a link to an article that gives and overview of Wi-Fi Sense features and concerns:

    http://http://www.techrepublic.com/a...and-questions/

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    Doesn't bother me one bit. I've disabled all Bluetooth and wireless interfaces in both my PC and ISP modem. Everything I use in my house is hardwired. Not 100% foolproof, but it's that much harder for me to be hacked which is a good thing. Only thing I'm worried about is my keyboard and mouse (since they are wireless). lol


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    Quote Originally Posted by lylejk View Post
    Doesn't bother me one bit. I've disabled all Bluetooth and wireless interfaces in both my PC and ISP modem. Everything I use in my house is hardwired. Not 100% foolproof, but it's that much harder for me to be hacked which is a good thing. Only thing I'm worried about is my keyboard and mouse (since they are wireless). lol

    Yeh, well, that's not an option for some of my clients. A wireless LAN is part of their operating method. Can someone answer my question?

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