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  1. #1
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    Emails strangely lost in Thunderbird

    hello everyone;
    my email client is thunderbird [tb], my isp [here in toronto], is teksavvy solutions.
    i have email accounts in hotmail, gmail and yahoo, but my MAIN activity is with with the account with address xxxxx@teksavvy.com that i have with teksavvy.
    lately i have been missing emails sent to me, people called to ask about my lack of reply.
    i have a samsung phone which i frequently use to take pictures.
    i noticed that pictures sent from the phone via gmail never arrived to tb.
    decide to open gmail in my desktop [to check sent folder], and there i find [in gmail inbox], ALL missing emails people sent me to my teksavvy account, but NOT the pictures i sent from the phone.
    could PLEASE someone explain to me what is going on?
    i am very confused.
    tia,

    daniel rozenberg
    Last edited by danielr2; 2015-07-19 at 18:57. Reason: to configure notifications

  2. #2
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    i kept digging in the web to build knowledge.
    somehow, IT APPEARS that the matter is related to the fact that incoming teksavvy server is POP, while gmail is IMAP, which [as far as i could understand], allows automatic replication of emails between accounts.
    also, IT SEEMS that with POP the isp web mail server can DECIDE which mails will forward to the customer email client program.

    this is what i believe i understood, but i will gladly appreciate if knowledgeable people can confirm / expand / correct these understandings.

    btw, one of the solutions suggested online was to open a new account in TB with settings [name, gmail address and password], so that when something is addressed to teksavvy incoming, will also go to gmail incoming, and its inbox therefore i will not loose a mail anymore.

    did it, following google recommended steps, tested [sent cc to all accounts], and did work.

    dr

  3. #3
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  4. #4
    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielr2 View Post
    i kept digging in the web to build knowledge.
    somehow, IT APPEARS that the matter is related to the fact that incoming teksavvy server is POP, while gmail is IMAP, which [as far as i could understand], allows automatic replication of emails between accounts.
    also, IT SEEMS that with POP the isp web mail server can DECIDE which mails will forward to the customer email client program.
    this is what i believe i understood, but i will gladly appreciate if knowledgeable people can confirm / expand / correct these understandings.
    btw, one of the solutions suggested online was to open a new account in TB with settings [name, gmail address and password], so that when something is addressed to teksavvy incoming, will also go to gmail incoming, and its inbox therefore i will not loose a mail anymore.
    did it, following google recommended steps, tested [sent cc to all accounts], and did work.
    dr
    Sorry for the long quote, but I just wanted to comment on the part in RED.

    That is just not true! Let me say, before I go further, that I've tried TB and found it seriously wanting. It's a second rate email program and it always did a second rate job for me. The internet is awash with complaints about TB.

    I'm not a software Guru, but I did find a way to re-activate Windows Mail (the big brother to Outlook Express 6, which I used for almost 15 years) which works very well indeed, in Windows Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 and even Windows 10 TP.

    A question..... Am I the only person in the World using Windows Mail? It handles my five GMail addresses seamlessly and without any of the problems I see posted on this and several other forums that I belong to. And I always set it up for "POP" and never IMAP. That has to be done at Google Mail and then again on my PC.
    It imports my old Windows Address Book (WAB) and even my old folders from Outlook Express. I call Windows Mail, "Outlook Express on Steroids".

    It's right there, in every version of Windows since Vista and I don't understand the reluctance of so many to use it. The "How to re-activate it" has been all over the internet for several years now. It ain't rocket science!

    Like TB, I cant' stand Windows Live Mail either. It looks like crap and doesn't work any better.
    I'm really getting tired of MS, killing apps that work great and giving us new ones that totally wet the bed!

    End of Rant:

    Last edited by DrWho; 2015-07-20 at 21:18.
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  5. #5
    5 Star Lounger RussB's Avatar
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    Amen!
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielr2 View Post
    somehow, IT APPEARS that the matter is related to the fact that incoming teksavvy server is POP, while gmail is IMAP, which [as far as i could understand], allows automatic replication of emails between accounts.
    also, IT SEEMS that with POP the isp web mail server can DECIDE which mails will forward to the customer email client program.
    ...
    I doubt that those differences explain your problem.
    The most obvious difference between POP3 and IMAP is that by default emails fetched using POP are deleted from the server, while, using IMAP, a copy is normally retained on the server.
    Some servers will offer both protocols.
    ISPs usually offer POP because they don't want to have to provide large storage areas for all their users' emails.

    I have not heard of ISPs only passing on certain emails. Your TB program should ask for and be given all emails in your inbox on the server. The exception will be if your ISP runs spam filtering and drops some emails in a quarantine folder. See if you have webmail access to your ISP account and check.

    Some possibilities:
    1. if you have another email client also connecting to the same servers, then an IMAP server will show all emails to both clients. However, if you use POP then each email will only be given to the first client that asks.
    2. email size - Most email servers will have upper limits on email size they will accept, and some are quite ridiculously small. In that case then your gmail account should have shown a nondelivery report. Try sending yourself a big email from the gmail account and see what happens.
    3. Size again: TB has a setting (usually turned off) that does not download messages larger than a certain size. Check that this was not enabled by mistake.

    I have used TB for many years, currently handling 8 separate accounts, but they are all imap. I have not had to use POP for a few years but TB happily handled a mix of POP and IMAP (not to the one server, of course)
    Last edited by Cameron; 2015-07-24 at 04:57.

  7. #7
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    hi Cameron;
    thank you very much for your comments an insight.

    1] is you have another email client also connecting to the same servers, then an IMAP server will show all emails to both clients.

    do i understand correctly that gmail has connection to teksavvy server?
    if so; how do they get it? did i allowed / enabled it? what / how does that happen? if accessed isn't it an INVASION of privacy?

    i recognize that having adopted the teksavvy account a my main one was a mistake am planning to change mistake.
    i'm planning to migrate to gmail as such.
    will have to create a new one and migrate all history and contacts, bcuz the current one is 2.xxxx@gmail.com, and my banks do no accept such kind of address.

    i agree w/ you, i like TB, i used to use OL of office 2003 and was a nightmare.

    thnxs again

  8. #8
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    Daniel, there's no invasion of privacy. Gmail has no access to your teksavvy account. What you may have done is to forward your teksavvy emails to your gmail one. This is often done as gmail's spam checking is very good.

    However, I'm not sure what you are saying. You state that you open gmail in your desktop. How did you do this. You also imply that you found your missing emails in the sent folder (though I might be mistaken in that). Where did you find these emails?

    How do you send your pics from the phone? They are normally not sent via email but sync to your a Google account (e.g. Google +).

    How do you normally open your teksavvy emails? How do you normally open your Gmail emails? And do you use any other email client to open them?

  9. #9
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    Hi Cameron;

    i'm deep into something else now, bur let me work out an answer and will explain over the weekend

    thnx.

    dr.

  10. #10
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    very often they are being filtered and discarded as the isp claims they are 'helping' you stop spam

    i had that problem double as my main email goes to my professional group who was 'helping' me and then to my current isp who also 'helped' me

    after asking several times i got them to give me all my emails

    MIT had a paper that showed you cannot filter in the middle without losing good emails. the only correct filtering must be done at the end point.

    it is possible that some relay sites also use a bogus blacklist and may throw away emails instead of relaying them




    Quote Originally Posted by danielr2 View Post
    hello everyone;
    my email client is thunderbird [tb], my isp [here in toronto], is teksavvy solutions.
    i have email accounts in hotmail, gmail and yahoo, but my MAIN activity is with with the account with address xxxxx@teksavvy.com that i have with teksavvy.
    lately i have been missing emails sent to me, people called to ask about my lack of reply.
    i have a samsung phone which i frequently use to take pictures.
    i noticed that pictures sent from the phone via gmail never arrived to tb.
    decide to open gmail in my desktop [to check sent folder], and there i find [in gmail inbox], ALL missing emails people sent me to my teksavvy account, but NOT the pictures i sent from the phone.
    could PLEASE someone explain to me what is going on?
    i am very confused.
    tia,

    daniel rozenberg

  11. #11
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    okay

    please start a new thread and post it here too

    tell us how to get a real pop3 client on win8 or win10

    details please





    Quote Originally Posted by DrWho View Post
    Sorry for the long quote, but I just wanted to comment on the part in RED.

    That is just not true! Let me say, before I go further, that I've tried TB and found it seriously wanting. It's a second rate email program and it always did a second rate job for me. The internet is awash with complaints about TB.

    I'm not a software Guru, but I did find a way to re-activate Windows Mail (the big brother to Outlook Express 6, which I used for almost 15 years) which works very well indeed, in Windows Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 and even Windows 10 TP.

    A question..... Am I the only person in the World using Windows Mail? It handles my five GMail addresses seamlessly and without any of the problems I see posted on this and several other forums that I belong to. And I always set it up for "POP" and never IMAP. That has to be done at Google Mail and then again on my PC.
    It imports my old Windows Address Book (WAB) and even my old folders from Outlook Express. I call Windows Mail, "Outlook Express on Steroids".

    It's right there, in every version of Windows since Vista and I don't understand the reluctance of so many to use it. The "How to re-activate it" has been all over the internet for several years now. It ain't rocket science!

    Like TB, I cant' stand Windows Live Mail either. It looks like crap and doesn't work any better.
    I'm really getting tired of MS, killing apps that work great and giving us new ones that totally wet the bed!

    End of Rant:


  12. #12
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    Is there some commonality to the ISPs from which you're not receiving email?

    I've had some problems in the past (in fact, one such is ongoing now) where an ISP blacklisted my server's IP address. The problem comes from the widespread use of shared servers and ISPs refusing to understand that users have absolutely zero control over who else is on the server. My host had done some server work lately and inadvertently left the server outside of some email firewall I'd never heard of when they were done. I couldn't send to just about anyone, and inbound email from Comcast and Google (both gmail and google.com addresses) wouldn't reach me -- but only some of my 18 email accounts were affected. Go figure!

    Those problems all cleared themselves up except the emails coming from Google-based blogs. They're still not coming in, but none is work-critical and I can narrow them down to two or three of my inboxes. I'm working with my host now to be sure the problem isn't at their end; I strongly suspect this is an overreaction from Google and I'll need to jump through some hoops with them to start receiving these emails again.

    Incidentally, I've been a Thunderbird user for years and have had very few complaints (and they were related to an unannounced functionality change during an update or two). I can assure you that your current problem, like min, is not a Thunderbird issue.

  13. #13
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    Real POP3 (or IMAP) client.

    TB works fine on all versions of Windows. <https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-and-windows-8>, says it works. The Internet might be awash with complaints about most anything just note YMMV. Instructions for TB can be found at <http://www.cybertopcops.com/thunderbird-install-guide.php>.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielr2 View Post
    ...
    do i understand correctly that gmail has connection to teksavvy server?
    if so; how do they get it? did i allowed / enabled it? what / how does that happen? if accessed isn't it an INVASION of privacy?
    It sometimes is possible to have one email server "collect" email for you from another account. This will only happen if you tell it all your account details and give it permission.

    In any case my comment was in relation to any email clients at all, such as setting TB up on a PC and also using a smart-phone to read mail from the same account. I was not thinking about gmail snaffling it.

    I think I need to fix a bit of the English in my first post.

  15. #15
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    hello everyone;
    thanks for all your comments and replies.
    no, i've been able to verify that it is NOT a TB problem.
    i created a gmail account within TB.
    gmail has a help online to do that, and they take [remote?] charge of all incoming and outgoing servers' settings in TB.
    since then my experience has been that i receive ALL emails originally addressed to my teksavvy account SHOWN in gmail account, BUT SOMETIMES NOT ALL of them shown in the teksavvy one.
    i come to [somehow] explain to myself that in this scenario, it is the ISP that when the capacity of their server "cannot store" enough, it sends it to my gmail account.
    btw: i recall, when opening the yahoo account, that they asked for "an alternative email address" (??)
    i honestly DO NOT recall having given them permission for doing that [neither recall to have given them the gmail as an "alternative" address either], but AT LEAST i feel more or less satisfied that I AM NOT losing mails.
    no, will not call teksavvy to try to have them solve the situation; as i am NOT find their email service reliable enough.
    my plan ahead is to change ALL my MAIN email activity to gmail, and ABANDON the teksavvy account.

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