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  1. #1
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    Mandatory Win10 Pro Updates

    While I understand MS wanting to get people to do regular updates, I have to wonder if forcing them is the right way. I can perhaps make the argument for Win10 Home, but less so for Win10 Pro.

    My routine for several years was to wait until the end of the month, then do an image backup, then upgrade. That way, if something went wrong I had a reliable fallback. But that's not an option for Win10. It's going to update when it wants to even if that's every day (hopefully not). A clean Win10 install has already updated itself 3 times in the past two weeks. The only two options seem to be to allow me to restart myself and to defer upgrades (which I don't fully understand yet).

    If these updates would at least limit themselves to a certain day every other week, or even weekly, then at least I could schedule a backup. But since they seem to just pop up out of the blue, I don't seem to have any options.

    How are others coping with this new Nanny behavior on the part of MS?

  2. #2
    5 Star Lounger petesmst's Avatar
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    Not quite correct:

    "Defer upgrades in Windows 10: Some Windows 10 editions let you defer upgrades to your PC. When you defer upgrades, new Windows features won’t be downloaded or installed for several months. Deferring upgrades doesn’t affect security updates. Note that deferring upgrades will prevent you from getting the latest Windows features as soon as they’re available."

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/w...-in-windows-10

    (There is more on this elsewhere here in the Lounge)
    (My Setup: Custom built: 4.00GHz Intel Core i7-6700K CPU; MSI Z170A Gaming Carbon Motherboard (Military Class III); Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 16GB RAM; 512GB SAMSUNG SD850 PRO SSD; 120GB SAMSUNG 840 SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; 2 X GeForceGTX 1070 8GB Graphics Card (SLI); Office 2013 Prof (32-bit); MS Project 2013 (32-bit); Acronis TI 2017 Premium, Norton Internet Security, VMWare Workstation12 Pro). WD My Book 3 1TB USB External Backup Drive). Samsung 24" Curved HD Monitor.

  3. #3
    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
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    When things like MS updates have the possibility of messing up something in your OS, it's important to have a new System Restore Point created every day.

    I do that on all my computers, by running a little script in my Startup folder, that forces a new Restore Point to be created every time my PC(s) boot up.

    That's a great hedge against update problems.

    Good Luck Mates!
    The Doctor
    Experience is truly the best teacher.

    Backup! Backup! Backup! GHOST Rocks!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by petesmst View Post
    Not quite correct:
    I think the point I was trying to get to is that with Win10, you cannot put off doing updates. Yes, you can 'defer upgrades' which I noted, but it's not yet fully clear what constitutes an upgrade (which I am still researching).

    My conundrum is that I could, at almost any time, be spoon fed an update whether I want it or not. I no longer have the option of waiting a few days to see if the update creates a problem before applying it. Nor can I wait till the end of the month for my normal update day routine.

    I can well see a situation where an update messes up something for me and other users. We can remove that particular update but since they are now automatic, it will likely just reinstall itself the next time it checks.

  5. #5
    5 Star Lounger petesmst's Avatar
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    Manadatory updates could also (as I feared) render your Apps useless and force you to replace/upgrade them:

    According to Windows 10’s License Agreement, the OS has been granted the power of jury, judge and executioner.

    Should it discover unauthorised “hardware peripheral devices” or software, it will flag and subsequently block it from access completely.

    Sometimes you’ll need software updates to keep using the Services. We may automatically check your version of the software and download software updates or configuration changes, including those that prevent you from accessing the Services, playing counterfeit games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices. You may also be required to update the software to continue using the Services.”
    (My Setup: Custom built: 4.00GHz Intel Core i7-6700K CPU; MSI Z170A Gaming Carbon Motherboard (Military Class III); Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 16GB RAM; 512GB SAMSUNG SD850 PRO SSD; 120GB SAMSUNG 840 SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; 2 X GeForceGTX 1070 8GB Graphics Card (SLI); Office 2013 Prof (32-bit); MS Project 2013 (32-bit); Acronis TI 2017 Premium, Norton Internet Security, VMWare Workstation12 Pro). WD My Book 3 1TB USB External Backup Drive). Samsung 24" Curved HD Monitor.

  6. #6
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    Check the EULA for your area. As of the time of this post the EULA in the USA had NOT been changed to include this statement. That is not to say it won't at some time.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP517 View Post
    Check the EULA for your area. As of the time of this post the EULA in the USA had NOT been changed to include this statement. That is not to say it won't at some time.

    Joe
    At Settings, System, Read the Microsoft Software License Terms, 14. Entire Agreement includes a URL for Microsoft Services Agreement (aka.ms/msa) which you agreed to read before using the software or services.

    That does include the above statement.

    If you use Microsoft Account, Bing, Cortana, Groove, Maps, MSN apps, Office, OneDrive, OneNote, Outlook.com, Skype, Sway, Windows/Xbox games etc. (total list of 80+), then your use is governed by that statement.

    Microsoft Services Agreement (aka.ms/msa)
    Last edited by BruceR; 2015-08-15 at 18:18.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsmith-plm View Post
    I think the point I was trying to get to is that with Win10, you cannot put off doing updates. Yes, you can 'defer upgrades' which I noted, but it's not yet fully clear what constitutes an upgrade (which I am still researching).

    My conundrum is that I could, at almost any time, be spoon fed an update whether I want it or not. I no longer have the option of waiting a few days to see if the update creates a problem before applying it. Nor can I wait till the end of the month for my normal update day routine.

    I can well see a situation where an update messes up something for me and other users. We can remove that particular update but since they are now automatic, it will likely just reinstall itself the next time it checks.
    Read the red in my signature line. That simple statement is amazingly powerful when MS (or a virus, or malware, or PUPs, etc.) pooches your installation. A drive image is not a Restore Point—System Restore sometimes fails.

    Better safe than sorry...
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbearren View Post
    Read the red in my signature line.
    What signature line?

    The more time I spend with Win10 and MS apps, the more it seems that MS is really serious about pushing everything over to a software service model where Nanny looks after everything for you.

    That might be OK if it weren't for the fact that the same OS has to run a whole host of non-curated applications that may be broken at any moment by an unwanted update that can't be stopped.

    I can't see corporate America signing onto something like this so surely MS has a plan to deal with this.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsmith-plm View Post
    What signature line?
    At the top right of this page, click on "Settings". On the page that opens, on the left panel click on "General Settings". Scroll down to "Thread Display Options" and put a check in the box by "Show Signatures".

    The more time I spend with Win10 and MS apps, the more it seems that MS is really serious about pushing everything over to a software service model where Nanny looks after everything for you.

    That might be OK if it weren't for the fact that the same OS has to run a whole host of non-curated applications that may be broken at any moment by an unwanted update that can't be stopped.

    I can't see corporate America signing onto something like this so surely MS has a plan to deal with this.
    Yes, they do, and it's called Windows 10 Enterprise, only available through volume licensing agreement. The rest of us take what we get and work with it. Some have elected to stay with Windows 7/8/8.1, which is one way of not dealing with Windows 10. Upgrading to Windows 10 is not mandatory, and those other MS OS's have plenty of support years left.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbearren View Post
    Read the red in my signature line.
    Now I can see it (thanks). That's part of my original post. My old routine was to do a monthly image backup then do the updates. With Win10 that's not a practical solution. I surely don't want to have to do an image backup every time Win10 decides to update something.

    But there's a bigger issue. Let's say that one particular patch creates a problem. I can uninstall it but with forced automatic updates, it's just going to reinstall at the next opportunity. Isn't it?

  12. #12
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsmith-plm View Post
    Now I can see it (thanks). That's part of my original post. My old routine was to do a monthly image backup then do the updates. With Win10 that's not a practical solution. I surely don't want to have to do an image backup every time Win10 decides to update something.

    But there's a bigger issue. Let's say that one particular patch creates a problem. I can uninstall it but with forced automatic updates, it's just going to reinstall at the next opportunity. Isn't it?
    It might, but it also might instead be a replacement for the problem update that gets installed. MS Windows 10 Update seems to be moving at a much faster pace than with previous versions of Windows. Part of the "phone home" issues with Windows 10 is the ability to recognize problems within the Windows 10 sphere more rapidly and take corrective actions more responsively.

    And it's still early in the Windows 10 game; it hasn't been a month, yet.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

  13. #13
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    One thing I'm still trying to sort through is the ability in Win10 Pro to "defer upgrades". According to MS,
    Some Windows 10 editions let you defer upgrades to your PC. When you defer upgrades, new Windows features won’t be downloaded or installed for several months. Deferring upgrades doesn’t affect security updates. Note that deferring upgrades will prevent you from getting the latest Windows features as soon as they’re available.
    It's not entirely clear what constitutes an upgrade vs an update. Presumably it's up to MS to decide that.

    The update issue is further complicated by information on the interweb that may have been true for the technical preview but may not be true now. This includes some instructions I ran across on how to modify the registry/group policy to bypass automatic updates. In theory this would allow you to change your update to the enterprise model. I don't think I'll be messing with this.

  14. #14
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    While there have been issues with the current cumulative update I think it is unwise to try to block these updates. Microsoft is rolling out fixes very quickly.

    Please note that there have been problems with fixes since fixes were first released. There will always be problems for some subset of systems. With the myriad of configurations that is unavoidable.

    Joe

  15. #15
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    It seems that there are a few ways of dealing with this. It is possible to turn off the Update service and there's a way to change the group policy in Win10 Pro so that it will notify you that updates are available but not download or install until told to do so. This lets me get back to my monthly routine.

    What cannot be done is pick and choose what updates to apply.
    Graham Smith
    DataSmith, Delaware
    "For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert.", Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - 2008)

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