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  1. #1
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    No, Microsoft is not spying on you with Windows 10

    Rui
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    From what I remember from my brief experience of Win 10 and the options that I unchecked, I got the impression that MS wanted to know all bar what you had for breakfast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sudo15 View Post
    From what I remember from my brief experience of Win 10 and the options that I unchecked, I got the impression that MS wanted to know all bar what you had for breakfast.
    We should try to have a substantiated discussion. Vague impressions or assertions should be left for other places. Please note that I am not taking positions, just that my goal with the post was to have a discussion on concrete, substantiated issues. I think there are legitimate concerns, but I have read completely absurd assertions, like they would copy and send all your files to Redmond. We are a technical forum, we should conduct technically sound discussions.
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    I also feel Microsoft is being overly intrusive. From the very beginning when they make you think it's required to sign onto Windows using your Microsoft account. You have to be very diligent to slip past that so you can do local logins only. And yes, I also noticed all the switches I had to turn off that really shouldn't be on to begin with. If you wish to play with all the shiny toys like Cortana, you HAVE to give Microsoft full access to everything you're doing.

    Plus, what's with the automatic updates that they admittedly tell you nothing about what they are and what they do? Apple does the same thing and that's one reason I'll never do Apple products.

    Maybe Microsoft isn't "SPYING" on us, but they are up to something.

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    While I can't remember all of the options now, I do remember thinking at the time when I was going through them that they seemed very intrusive.

    Perhaps someone with a better memory or access to those options could verify the tech bits - after all, that article was Ed Bott's take on them and we are each entitled to our own in how we view our privacy.

    So I think any discussion on them would be coloured by how each perceived them and only MS will know the true motives behind gathering that info.

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    Of course they are not spying on "you" or "me," that's patently ridiculous. As a group though, or ability to categorize markets, they want a collection of information to sell to advertisers and base decisions on; just as many other consumer marketers want, like Facebook, and Google, etc. Microsoft just happens to have one of the best tools at their disposal for that purpose and they are clearly struggling with how much of that tool to apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sudo15 View Post
    While I can't remember all of the options now, I do remember thinking at the time when I was going through them that they seemed very intrusive.

    Perhaps someone with a better memory or access to those options could verify the tech bits - after all, that article was Ed Bott's take on them and we are each entitled to our own in how we view our privacy.

    So I think any discussion on them would be coloured by how each perceived them and only MS will know the true motives behind gathering that info.
    I am sorry to disagree, this cannot be about perceptions, but about concrete things, otherwise we better do as Ed Bott recommends and put on our very own tinfoil hats. I have nothing against perceptions, everyone can have their own, but here, we should argue facts. Anything else is not for a technical forum.

    The goal here is to inform and be informed. There is too much FUD out there already and anyone wanting that can go to one of the many places where those fanciful conspiracy theories abound.

    Personally, I think that, if anything, Microsoft has made bad choices regarding transparency and default settings. This has brought about a big load of nonsense, but probably they have themselves to blame for it. I am not as worried about them taking my data, which no one has really shown them to do, as I am about other issues, like mandatory updates and non disclosure of such updates contents. My computers are a work tool on which I depend and I cannot risk losing work hours on bad updates or updates that are of no interest or that can interfere with products or product configurations that I rely on to do my work. That is a big no for me and that is the single reason for not having migrated to Windows 10 yet and considering not migration at all, unless I have to - like when I'll buy a new computer, in which case I will be expecting to have to spend some time getting it configured as I need.
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  9. #8
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruirib View Post
    I am sorry to disagree, this cannot be about perceptions, but about concrete things, otherwise we better do as Ed Bott recommends and put on our very own tinfoil hats. I have nothing against perceptions, everyone can have their own, but here, we should argue facts. Anything else is not for a technical forum.

    The goal here is to inform and be informed. There is too much FUD out there already and anyone wanting that can go to one of the many places where those fanciful conspiracy theories abound.
    Indeed.

    Yes, there is "information" gathered by Microsoft for a number of reasons. Part of that information is "linked" to your computer hardware hash code (the same one that provides your license to use Windows 10) for technical/performance aggregation and analysis. We have options available within the OS to limit the extent of the information Microsoft can gather.

    Part of the information is "linked" to your IP address, in the same way that online purchases are tacked to your IP address, searches via Google are tacked to your IP address, etc. etc. If we go online for any reason, most of our browsing is tracked in numerous ways. Every time you request a web page (click on a bookmark or type it into search box) you are sending your IP address in order for the page to be delivered to you. Every web site you visit gathers as much information related to your IP address as they deem favorable to suit their business model.

    Buy something from an online retailer, and your IP address is going to be tracked. Sites you visit are likely to offer ads that are very similar to your recent purchases/searches of merchandise. Ads are being paid for by our clicks, and our clicks are validated by IP address, or else the advertiser won't be paid (a thousand clicks in a couple of minutes from a single IP address won't get credited).

    Opt out of everything that you can opt out of, but if you don't want to be tracked at all or have any information on you available to third parties at all, don't ever go online for any reason, and make all your purchases from brick and mortar stores using cash only; your credit card purchases are also tracked for targeted marketing.

    Rest assured that our online habits/purchases are indeed being tracked and collated, but not just by Microsoft; every online presence is doing it, and they are all gathering the same types of information for the same purposes; they want to sell us stuff. It's really no more nefarious than that.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

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    People have to differentiate between the official released version of Windows 10 and any of the preview versions. The preview versions have a different agreement and have a considerable amount of telemetry enabled which a user can not disable. If you join the Insider Program and run a preview version you have to agree to the extensive data collection.

    Joe

  11. #10
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP517 View Post
    People have to differentiate between the official released version of Windows 10 and any of the preview versions. The preview versions have a different agreement and have a considerable amount of telemetry enabled which a user can not disable. If you join the Insider Program and run a preview version you have to agree to the extensive data collection.

    Joe
    Agreed; that's all part of the beta testing, and being willing is part of being a beta tester.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

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    If Facebook and Google are doing it it must be OK. I'm sure the call it something else.

    http://windowssecrets.com/forums/sho...n-you-Go-Linux

  13. #12
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    Question is; Is that extensive telemetric data collection done with the W10 previews still going on?
    I also suspect that MS has moved forward quite a bit in the "targeted" ad business that many others have been
    doing far more extensively than MS had been doing previously.

    I just whished they had left WU alone, not only do you not get a choice in the update, you also
    have next to zero information about it. Don't they know we're a paranoid crowd, unlike the Apple lackeys.
    Last edited by CLiNT; 2015-08-28 at 03:48.
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    I think perception of what someone thinks MS are doing plays a big part in accepting the EULA and whether they want to continue with Win 10 - just how much private info are MS entitled to and do we want them to collect it.

    Error reporting is one thing - private info is another.

    I agree that the biggest concern is about auto updates given MS's past reliability on that and while they are supposed to have been tested for a month by the Insiders on the Fast Ring before the rest get them, we've all seen how some updates have had a catastrophic effect on some machines but not on others - but how much of the MS Big Brother is acceptable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruirib View Post
    We should try to have a substantiated discussion. Vague impressions or assertions should be left for other places.
    This is an extremely difficult discussion to have but a necessary one, and unfortunately perception does play a role in it. What one person may consider intrusive, another may not.

    For example, I have spoken with a couple people who are concerned about this but seem oblivious to the amount of information Google and Amazon keep about them. They are bothered by something they have heard or read about Windows 10, but have an Android phone with 25 apps that can and do have access to everything on that phone, plus their history, and can track their every movement.

    People are concerned about security but are perfectly willing to put personal documents, passwords, banking data, health information, etc in the "cloud". Have they really thought this through?

    Do I like the default permissions in Windows 10? Not particularly. I've looked into them and even got an app that helps gain access to all of them and was staggered to see how many things there were that kept and or transmitted tracking data. In about 15 seconds my eyes glazed over and I decided to come back to this later when I had a few hours to spend figuring out what all these things were.

    But let's be honest here, how many people have any real idea of what's being tracked on your Win7 or 8 or XP computer right this very second as you read this? How about your iPad/iPhone? Your Android device? Be honest, now. How about your email provider and your ISP, what are they tracking? And your cable company and phone company and the list goes on and on. Be honest, now - you really have no idea, do you?

  16. #15
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    No one has Windows 10 installed without agreeing to the Windows 10 EULA. Those of us who have Windows 10 because we started with the Insider Preview route agreed to a much more extensive transfer of information. With the RTM we gained the ability to trim back the amount of information and opting out of some of the telemetry by opting out of the Insider program and getting out of the Fast Ring. But in all cases, we have all agreed to the EULA.

    And the EULA is very plain; if you don't like it, uninstall the OS and you are not bound by it. It's just that simple. Millions upon millions of Windows users of various flavors have been using auto-update throughout their history with Windows. Those of us who have opted to exercise some control over the process are a very small minority. Enterprise users always have, and they always will, and MS will more than likely always allow them to do so rather than risk losing their business. The rest of us, 'taint likely; those of us who are being vocal about our distaste for auto-updates are still Windows users, aren't we? We're just whining.

    But we stay with Windows because the other options are less viable/desirable. Windows 7 users still outnumber Windows 10 users by a wide margin, will continue to do so for quite a long while, and all of us who are now using Windows 10 by upgrading Windows 7 had/have that option as well. I could restore a drive image and step right back into Window 7 just as it was when I upgraded, as could anyone who has a recent drive image of their Windows 7 installation.

    Microsoft, however, is not going to step back. The market spoke through Windows 8/8.1, Microsoft heard that voice and we now have Windows 10. They've also indicated that they've altered their Windows business model in some significant ways, and only market forces will have any effect on those changes. All we can really do is ride the waves or get out of the Microsoft ocean.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
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