Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29
  1. #1
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post

    Question Windows10 upgrade takes over upgraded license?

    According to Susan Bradley's article of September 3 "Sorting through the changes in Windows licensing," upgrading Windows 7 to Windows 10 results in Windows 10 taking over the license, such that a dual-boot is no longer possible. She states that users have 30 days after the upgrade to revert back to Windows 7 before this occurs. Can anyone confirm whether or not they have been able to dual-boot Windows 7 (or 8) with Windows 10 for longer than 30 days? I haven't been able to confirm whether or not this is just EULA / licensing or whether it is indeed impossible to dual-boot with an upgraded Windows 10. I have usually moved to a new OS gradually, and only fully after the bugs are worked out over many months. With Windows 10 privacy issues, I may decide to revert to Windows 7 even 1-2 years from now. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Polk County, Florida
    Posts
    3,761
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 424 Times in 338 Posts
    If your question is "Can I keep using the OS that I've upgraded in a dual boot with its upgraded counterpart?" the answer is "No." You no longer have a license for that OS; you only have a license for a single OS, Windows 10. You have a 30 day opportunity to roll back to Windows 7, but that's your only option.

    You can dual boot with another OS that has a legitimate license. I dual boot 8.1 and 10, which is the Windows 7 side of my dual boot upgraded to 10.
    Last edited by bbearren; 2015-09-04 at 20:38. Reason: punctuation
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

  3. #3
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
    Do you know what happens after the 30-day window passes?

    Did you pay for two full licenses - Windows 7 and 8? I don't know a single user who ever paid for a full license beyond the initial purchase of Windows for a given build. I never have in almost 30 years of building PCs. We have 6 computers in our household, all running upgraded versions of separate licenses. It is ridiculous to expect people to pay full price for a new version in order to dual-boot during the upgrade/tryout phase (especially when the system is so radically different - which Windows 8 and 10 are).

    In the past I've always upgraded my licenses and run as many versions of Windows as I required to run my Windows applications. I used to keep XP32 running so I could continue to use applications that didn't run on Windows7 Pro64. I rolled back to Windows 7 after more than a year of using Windows 8.

    I paid for all these licenses each time I upgraded. If I pay for an upgrade to Windows 10, I should be able to dual-boot it with Windows 7 imo. According to this strict interpretation, none of the versions I have upgraded will continue to work. That is a radical change from past practice which will alienate legitimate users without deep pockets. If MS changes this long-standing practice among their users, it's an unnecessary and unwise move which will further alienate power users, many of whom are very unhappy with multiple developments in Windows, particularly the surrender of personal privacy in order to use technology which becomes ever more essential every day.

    I hope someone with experience can answer my question at the beginning of this post so I don't have to roll back to Windows 7. I'd rather reinstall Windows 10 over Windows 8 and continue using Windows 7 if possible. Otherwise, I will uninstall Windows 10 and hope MS policy changes.

    Thanks for your reply.
    Last edited by Gonga; 2015-09-05 at 01:19.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Polk County, Florida
    Posts
    3,761
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 424 Times in 338 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Gonga View Post
    Do you know what happens after the 30-day window passes?
    My understanding is that the option to revert to the previous OS is no longer available via Settings 30 days after your upgrade to Windows 10. I've already removed the Windows.old folder from my Windows 10 installation, as I could revert using a drive image if I so chose.

    Did you pay for two full licenses - Windows 7 and 8? I don't know a single user who ever paid for a full license beyond the initial purchase of Windows for a given build.
    Well, now you know at least one. I prefer retail licensing because of its portability. I have an unused Retail Windows 7 Ultimate License as well as an unused Retail (I paid for it) Windows 10 Pro license, in addition to the license used for my Windows 8.1 Pro in this dual boot desktop along with my license for Windows 10 Pro (upgraded Windows 7 Ultimate). I have two desktops and two laptops, and dual boot fully licensed Windows OS's on my main desktop and both laptops. I previously had two dekstops with Retail License versions of Windows 7 Ultimate that are now disassembled with some parts trashed, but one Retail Windows 7 license remains valid since it is no longer installed on any PC.

    Other than laptops, I have only bought two OEM machines in all my Windows days going back to Windows 3.11. I build my PC's and purchase retail Windows OS's to install in them. The OS on my Dell Inspiron 580, OEM Windows 7 Home Premium, was replaced with Retail Windows 7 Ultimate. I later uninstalled Windows 7 Ultimate from that machine, restored the OEM Windows 7 Home Premium, upgraded that OS to Windows 7 Professional via Anytime Upgrade, then later upgraded Windows 7 Professional to Windows 10 Pro.


    I never have in almost 30 years of building PCs. We have 6 computers in our household, all running upgraded versions of separate licenses. It is ridiculous to expect people to pay full price for a new version in order to dual-boot during the upgrade/tryout phase (especially when the system is so radically different - which Windows 8 and 10 are).
    Then you've been skirting the EULA all that time if you have been dual booting the "expired license" OS alongside the upgraded OS. I've always upgraded an existing installation, which in most cases has been in an existing, fully licensed, dual boot environment. Some prefer a clean install, but for me, that's a preference, not a necessity. I've never had any problems with a straight upgrade over an existing installation. My only clean installations were involved in going from XP to Windows 7, since there was no direct upgrade path supported by Microsoft. My "tryout" is to jump in with both feet, since I'm dual booting and can always boot into the 'old' OS whenever necessary to get things done quickly.

    I paid for all these licenses each time I upgraded. If I pay for an upgrade to Windows 10, I should be able to dual-boot it with Windows 7 imo.
    If you pay for an upgrade to Windows 10, you would be able to dual boot it with Windows 7. On the other hand, if you use the free upgrade to Windows 10 over Windows 7, It doesn't work that way; the EULA says differently.

    According to this strict interpretation, none of the versions I have upgraded will continue to work. That is a radical change from past practice which will alienate legitimate users without deep pockets. If MS changes this long-standing practice among their users, it's an unnecessary and unwise move which will further alienate power users, many of whom are very unhappy with multiple developments in Windows, particularly the surrender of personal privacy in order to use technology which becomes ever more essential every day.
    And yet Windows advancement marches on to the beat of the Microsoft drum and market forces. It would appear that power users with deep pockets are not in the majority of market share for Windows OS's. Their target appears to be mainstream users

    I hope someone with experience can answer my question at the beginning of this post so I don't have to roll back to Windows 7. I'd rather reinstall Windows 10 over Windows 8 and continue using Windows 7 if possible. Otherwise, I will uninstall Windows 10 and hope MS policy changes.
    My answers may not seem satisfactory, but I am not without a bit of experience. If you have a drive image of your previous Windows 7 installation, you can essentially "undo" the Windows 10 upgrade and revert to Windows 7, then upgrade over Windows 8.1 if that's your preference. As for the rollback, you have 30 days from the date you upgraded to roll back to Windows 7, in my understanding.

    The main change in MS licensing is that the OS license is now keyed to a hardware hash of the PC in which it is installed, and not tied to a Product Key as in the past. Most other aspects of the EULA remain unchanged.
    Last edited by bbearren; 2015-09-05 at 10:28.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

  5. #5
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    23,594
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 1,059 Times in 928 Posts
    If you want to try Windows 10 see Windows 10 Enterprise for a 90 day evaluation copy.

    Joe

  6. #6
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
    Thanks for your answers, it's just that I'm still unsure. It sounds like the problem is I won't be able to revert back to Windows 7 from within Windows 10, but I would never have done that anyway. As you suggested, I would use an image of Windows 7 that I have. So apparently, that will continue to function as it always has. I hope. That's very different than what Susan was saying...that a dual-boot wouldn't be possible. I'm still unsure. This is a huge problem for me as Windows 10 is not yet ready to be my main PC for audio work (a lot of audio hardware and software are experiencing work-stopping issues). If the price of trying Windows 10 is Windows 7 not functioning, than trying Windows 10 will not even be an option. And I need an OS that I can use when I upgrade a motherboard, etc. The price of a non-OEM version is $200, much too steep for me to afford. My Windows 7 Pro upgrade was $99 and Windows 8 was $39 if I remember correctly. I've seen no good offers. The OEM version apparently cannot be moved to another PC in the future. I really don't think they are trying to win over their core base of technologically proficient users - the ones who fix all the PC problems for 10 or more other users like us...the ones who keep Windows viable as an OS in fact.

    For most of my adult life I've been a big supporter of Microsoft, especially in recent years as they were one of the few major companies that respected our privacy rights. I will likely use Windows 10 at some point when it is more mature, with the surveillance "features" disabled, but I am deeply dismayed with the direction MS, and the rest of the technology world, is taking toward erosion of our basic privacy freedoms as the price of participation in the modern world. It is very sad to put it mildly, and what is most sad is how few appear to care enough to do anything about it.
    Last edited by Gonga; 2015-09-05 at 23:33.

  7. #7
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    23,594
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 1,059 Times in 928 Posts
    For the first 30 days after an upgrade you can revert to Windows 7 from within Windows 10 as long as you upgrade the Windows 7 install to Windows 10. If you install Windows 10 in a separate partition it will not be a free upgrade, you'll need a key. However, you can still join the Windows Insider program (see [url=https://insider.windows.com/]Windows Insider Program[/url) which has a little more flexibility about installation. If you join you MUST be prepared to take pre-release software. Each build has an expiration date. If all you want is to test Windows 10 see post #5.

    Joe

  8. #8
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
    I joined the insider program but was appalled at the private information they would collect, so I was never able to participate. No wonder MS has gone in this horrible direction of eroding basic constitutional rights...the only people who were giving them feedback were all people who have no trouble giving up their privacy. I could be wrong, but that's my impression.

    Well, my Windows 7 disk is still working just fine. And though I haven't been using Windows 10, I imagine it's fine too. I think the only problem I would have is if I wanted to revert the Windows 10 upgrade disk back to Windows 7 that would no longer be possible...I assume.

    Thanks for all your help guys. I plan to research the OS more. What I need to know is whether ALL privacy-invading features can be turned off and controlled by fairly simple measures, such that I can install the OS on my wife and kid's computers without worry about massive amounts of data being collected on their computer behaviors, data which could be sold, stolen, etc. and some day used against them. It just appalls me that we have allowed companies and the government to collect data on us without our explicit permission, simply by agreeing to EULA so that we can use technology. Whether or not to use technology is no longer a choice for most of us. We must. My 19-year-old is forced to use Google for all her data by her college, and my high schooler is forced to use Microsoft OneDrive for all her data. Currently, the only way somebody can use technology is to agree to surrender significant fundamental rights to privacy. It is unethical, dangerous, and very sad that are doing this to our children without so much as a shrug.

  9. #9
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    2,522
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 170 Times in 142 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Gonga View Post
    I joined the insider program but was appalled at the private information they would collect, so I was never able to participate. No wonder MS has gone in this horrible direction of eroding basic constitutional rights...the only people who were giving them feedback were all people who have no trouble giving up their privacy. I could be wrong, but that's my impression.

    Well, my Windows 7 disk is still working just fine. And though I haven't been using Windows 10, I imagine it's fine too. I think the only problem I would have is if I wanted to revert the Windows 10 upgrade disk back to Windows 7 that would no longer be possible...I assume.

    Thanks for all your help guys. I plan to research the OS more. What I need to know is whether ALL privacy-invading features can be turned off and controlled by fairly simple measures, such that I can install the OS on my wife and kid's computers without worry about massive amounts of data being collected on their computer behaviors, data which could be sold, stolen, etc. and some day used against them. It just appalls me that we have allowed companies and the government to collect data on us without our explicit permission, simply by agreeing to EULA so that we can use technology. Whether or not to use technology is no longer a choice for most of us. We must. My 19-year-old is forced to use Google for all her data by her college, and my high schooler is forced to use Microsoft OneDrive for all her data. Currently, the only way somebody can use technology is to agree to surrender significant fundamental rights to privacy. It is unethical, dangerous, and very sad that are doing this to our children without so much as a shrug.
    There is no such thing taking place. Nothing is 'Big Bother'. I wish it wasn't so hard to get people to understand what really is the scenario instead or the wild notions hearsay is propagating. One can turn things off but, the point is, Windows pays attention to how & what of technical nature to analyse, understand & respond accordingly, as time passes, to be able to continually give a better & better & personally fitting End User experience. Nobody is violating any civil rights.

    Bottom line, Windows 10 is terrific & WAY Better than the past.

    As for the Insider Program... that's the whole point of it... to work as a TEAM w/ the Windows 10 Build Team... to use/try things, give Feedback & together, like co-workers in a research lab developing something & BEFORE that something goes to the public. Ergo, of course, there is communication between all parties, otherwise nothing would be, could be accomplished & goals not achieved.

    As for the licensing query...
    It is not different than when we went from 7 to 8 via Upgrade. Well, except that could be done for $40, this can be done for free, from 7 & 8.1 The offer is, in effect possible by virtue of already having (owning) a Windows License. That is transferred over to the new OS & no longer valid for the previous OS which, is now gone (replaced), anyway.

    Also, more fundamental is the ONE RULE. 1 License, 1 OS, 1 Computer, 1 Purchaser. In the case of Win10,one can Upgrade for free, (for a while if eligible) but, clean installs are not free... for them one buys a license... this is not new to or peculiar to Windows 10.

    One cannot install the same OS more than once. (See ONE Rule) And if an OS is Upgraded, its license is (still) in use just, now, applied to a different OS than it was.
    Last edited by Drew1903; 2015-09-21 at 04:17.

  10. #10
    Silver Lounger wavy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    ny
    Posts
    2,383
    Thanks
    235
    Thanked 147 Times in 136 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Drew1903 View Post

    As for the licensing query...
    It is not different than when we went from 7 to 8 via Upgrade.
    I wanted to revert the Windows 10 upgrade disk back to Windows 7 that would no longer be possible...I assume.
    Which of course you did not actually address.

    David

    Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    4,756
    Thanks
    171
    Thanked 653 Times in 576 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by wavy View Post
    Which of course you did not actually address.
    Because it wouldn't have been possible with a 7 to 8 upgrade either?

    Gonga has been told two or three times in this thread that the licensing situation hasn't changed with Windows 10, but I doubt if he believes that.

  12. #12
    Silver Lounger wavy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    ny
    Posts
    2,383
    Thanks
    235
    Thanked 147 Times in 136 Posts
    I am not sure what Gonga really wants to know at this point.
    I will state a question, the answer of which may be what he wants to know.
    I myself am still unsure of the answer, call me dumb if you like, it will not be the first or last time.

    If one uses the free upgrade to W10 from 7 (or 8.1) and, in say 12 months, has felt no love of W10 can they reinstall W7 and have a valid license for W7 that will be able to be activated?


    Last edited by wavy; 2015-09-22 at 13:09. Reason: sp
    David

    Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    6,798
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 799 Times in 720 Posts
    It's HERE. Not sure why you couldn't have gone to it yourself.
    That link just addresses going back to the previous OS within one month after installing Windows 10. It doesn't address trying to reinstall the previous OS after one month has elapsed which was Wavy's question.

    Jerry

  14. #14
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia
    Posts
    5,055
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 417 Times in 346 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Drew1903 View Post
    NO. The license that was 7 has flipped to their Win10. W7 license no longer valid (or existing.
    Drew, that is completely wrong. If one uninstalls Win 10 the Win 7 license remains valid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drew1903 View Post
    Also, more fundamental is the ONE RULE. 1 License, 1 OS, 1 Computer, 1 Purchaser. In the case of Win10,one can Upgrade for free, (for a while if eligible) but, clean installs are not free... for them one buys a license... this is not new to or peculiar to Windows 10.
    At best, this is misleading. A Windows license has never been limited to '1 Computer' or to '1 Purchaser'. Except for OEM installs, they are and always have been transferrable to another computer and, regardless of whether it's an OEM install, are and always have been transferrable to another owner. Furthermore, volume licences and be used by the same owner on multiple computers. Please get your 'facts' straight.

    PS: I've also deleted your inflammatory last post. Kindly don't go around making false accusations about people here (or elsewhere).
    Cheers,

    Paul Edstein
    [MS MVP - Word]

  15. #15
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    2,522
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 170 Times in 142 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jwitalka View Post
    That link just addresses going back to the previous OS within one month after installing Windows 10. It doesn't address trying to reinstall the previous OS after one month has elapsed which was Wavy's question.

    Jerry
    Well, I did think the answer to that question was in those answers.

    One would have to buy a new license for the Windows 7. It doesn't have valid license anymore; that went to the OS or over was taken over by the OS, to which it was Upgraded. Nor is this peculiar to Windows 10 Upgrade scenario. If the answer, given here, is not on the site I offered, he will have to look elsewhere. I tried to save him looking & that's all one can do.

    And the license only goes back to 7 or 8.1 if w/in the 30 days of the rollback opportunity.
    Last edited by Drew1903; 2015-09-22 at 18:00.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •