Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25
  1. #1
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    True Confession time: I still run WfW 3.11 on top of DOS 6.20. Need to migrate

    Yeah, you read the header right. My main home computer is still running WfW 3.11 on top of DOS 6.20 (on an AMD 486DX4-100 micro). Kickin' it old skool.

    I run a few DOS programs (MYM 12.0 and WP 5.1, mostly) and a few Windows programs (Quicken V3 and Microsoft Office). It's still working, although I have had to replace a few disks as time goes by. I use SCSI for the hard disks and the CD-ROM drive and the backup tape drive.

    Tape backup has worked for me so far until now, but the tape backup program has started crashing because the directory structure grew too big for it to handle. Besides, if my hardware were to die, the tape backup would be useless unless I were to find exact hardware replacements.

    Time to move on. Sort of. I do not want to give up my finance programs: MYM never had a Y2K problem, and the folks have defeatured and imbedded ads in Quicken so much over the years that I just cannot stand it. So, I think my ideal solution would be DOS 6.20 and WfW 3.11 under a VM.

    It would be ideal to image my hard disks and just mount them under the VM, but the ability to image SCSI drives seems to have disappeared (i.e. the ability to hook up a SCSI drive through a USB interface). I think I may have my original installation disks for what I want to keep under WfW, but I'll lose all that lovely customization.

    Thoughts? Or am I SOL?

  2. #2
    4 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    561
    Thanks
    51
    Thanked 68 Times in 66 Posts
    Get thee to the pit, thou archaic software using fiend!!

    Why do you want to hang on to DOS and Win311? I'd suggest trying to run your apps on a modern version of Windows. The apps are usually the point of contention, not the OS.

    Seeing as your apps are ancient, they don't understand long filenames. However I believe that NTFS can still present an 8.3 name view to them. But developing that point, you'll need a 32-bit version of the OS. The 64-bit versions have removed the WOW16 subsystem, and your apps will be 16-bit apps.

    Ah yes. According to Wikipedia, the 32 bit OSes right up to and including Windows 8, still include WOW16.

    "The Win16 subsystem is available in 32-bit editions of Windows NT, 2000, XP, Server 2003, Vista, Server 2008, 7, and 8. The 64-bit editions of Windows versions that have them, however, do not include the WoW Win16-support subsystem and therefore cannot run Win16 applications, nor do they provide the NTVDM emulator. DOS and 16-bit Windows applications, therefore cannot run in 64-bit versions of Windows without third-party emulation software (e.g. DOSBox) or a virtual machine with either a 32-bit version of Windows, Windows XP Mode, or DOS itself."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_on_Windows

  3. #3
    5 Star Lounger RussB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Posts
    803
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 50 Times in 49 Posts
    You can run all that from a 32 Gig USB drive in a Virtual Machine using a second 16 Gig as your HDD, if you even need more space. Likely run at about the same speed or faster if USB 3.0. With this you could run it on any computer with a USB connection.
    Do you "Believe"? Do you vote? Please Read:
    LEARN something today so you can TEACH something tomorrow.
    DETAIL in your question promotes DETAIL in my answer.
    Dominus Vobiscum <))>(

  4. #4
    WS Lounge VIP mrjimphelps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,405
    Thanks
    447
    Thanked 404 Times in 376 Posts
    If you can get all of your old software working in a VM, you should be good to go for a very long time, because you won't be stuck on old hardware.

    Your backups should be very easy -- just make a copy of the VM. I've never done it myself, but I have heard that that's all there is to it.

    My guess is that you can get SCSI interface cards (not USB, but rather in a slot on your motherboard) to connect your hard drive.

  5. #5
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjimphelps View Post
    If you can get all of your old software working in a VM, you should be good to go for a very long time, because you won't be stuck on old hardware.

    Your backups should be very easy -- just make a copy of the VM. I've never done it myself, but I have heard that that's all there is to it.

    My guess is that you can get SCSI interface cards (not USB, but rather in a slot on your motherboard) to connect your hard drive.
    Thank you for your advice. The reason I was going with USB to read the SCSI drives is that I have access to laptops, but no desktop/tower computers with a motherboard I can plug a card into. I guess I sorta skipped a generation there.

    I actually do have an extra SCSI card for a mother board (ISA, I suspect). Not sure I want to collect yet another box to sit around.

  6. #6
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BHarder View Post
    Get thee to the pit, thou archaic software using fiend!!

    Why do you want to hang on to DOS and Win311? I'd suggest trying to run your apps on a modern version of Windows. The apps are usually the point of contention, not the OS.

    Seeing as your apps are ancient, they don't understand long filenames. However I believe that NTFS can still present an 8.3 name view to them. But developing that point, you'll need a 32-bit version of the OS. The 64-bit versions have removed the WOW16 subsystem, and your apps will be 16-bit apps.

    Ah yes. According to Wikipedia, the 32 bit OSes right up to and including Windows 8, still include WOW16.

    "The Win16 subsystem is available in 32-bit editions of Windows NT, 2000, XP, Server 2003, Vista, Server 2008, 7, and 8. The 64-bit editions of Windows versions that have them, however, do not include the WoW Win16-support subsystem and therefore cannot run Win16 applications, nor do they provide the NTVDM emulator. DOS and 16-bit Windows applications, therefore cannot run in 64-bit versions of Windows without third-party emulation software (e.g. DOSBox) or a virtual machine with either a 32-bit version of Windows, Windows XP Mode, or DOS itself."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_on_Windows
    I always thought 64 bit OS is better than 32 bit OS, so guess what all the machines around me are? Yeah.

    Looks like I need a sacrificial generic desktop system to play with. Given that laptops, notebooks, netbooks, tablets, and the like are taking over the world, any suggestions for a box?

  7. #7
    4 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    561
    Thanks
    51
    Thanked 68 Times in 66 Posts
    Nah, just use whatever you like. My rule of thumb is that laptops die quicker than desktops, mainly because they are built to be mobile. All that extra handling makes them more prone to dropping and breakage. However if you need the portability, a laptop fits the bill.

    That same comment will of course apply to notebooks, netbooks, tablets and even smartphones.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to BHarder For This Useful Post:

    mrjimphelps (2015-09-14)

  9. #8
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    I also still use Win 3.11 under Portable Dos in a Windows 8 PC


  10. #9
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Forever West
    Posts
    2,076
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 259 Times in 248 Posts
    I have a Compaq 80386SX-16MHz laptop running MS-DOS 5 and Windows 3.1 and recently was given a laptop with Windows 98 on it. Outside of the battery both work as intended.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Berton For This Useful Post:

    mrjimphelps (2015-09-14)

  12. #10
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    665
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 26 Times in 24 Posts
    Maybe DOSBox virtual machine would work.

    http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail...s/1098376770/1

  13. #11
    4 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Hampshire (the old one)
    Posts
    525
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 72 Times in 62 Posts

    Slightly OT

    Quote Originally Posted by JOATMON View Post
    Yeah, you read the header right. My main home computer is still running WfW 3.11 on top of DOS 6.20 (on an AMD 486DX4-100 micro). Kickin' it old skool.

    <snip>

    Thoughts?
    I've done some research on this, and I can't find any law against it. Now, I don't know how it works where you are, but here in the UK we don't have a written constitution, which means that if there's no law against it, you have the right to do it. So I wouldn't feel so guilty, in spite of what anyone says.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to tonyl For This Useful Post:

    XPDiHard (2015-12-05)

  15. #12
    4 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    561
    Thanks
    51
    Thanked 68 Times in 66 Posts
    I can't find any law against it.
    Yes, but did you know that in PEI you can't smoke a cigar in an outhouse? Or at least you couldn't, this information is from a long time ago. Yet I don't think there ever was a time when this law wasn't eccentric.

  16. #13
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    362
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
    IBM PS1.jpg

    This is my 1992 IBM PS/1. It came with DOS 5 which I updated to DOS 6.22, the original Windows 3.1, 4 megs. of RAM which I upgraded to 8 megs., a 130 MB hard drive that I upgraded to a 500 MB. It still works - very slow, but it works better than when it was new. I mainly use it as a monitor support stand, but I fire it up every now and then. I like keeping my knowledge of DOS from fading and look at those batch files I made back in the day. So you're not the only one. This is just for fun, I'm not at all suggesting you get one of these even if you could.

  17. #14
    4 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    561
    Thanks
    51
    Thanked 68 Times in 66 Posts
    OMG a PS/1! Those were terrible!

    I was cursed for many years supporting corporate PS/2's. They had some nice features but overall, too expensive for what you got.

    Still the best keyboard ever made though.

  18. #15
    WS Lounge VIP mrjimphelps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,405
    Thanks
    447
    Thanked 404 Times in 376 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BHarder View Post
    OMG a PS/1! Those were terrible!

    I was cursed for many years supporting corporate PS/2's. They had some nice features but overall, too expensive for what you got.

    Still the best keyboard ever made though.
    If you're speaking of IBM Microchannel computers, I agree heartily. It seemed that no two MCA models were alike -- there were variations in the way you did maintenance / updates on each model. In addition to forcing everyone onto a proprietary (as opposed to open architecture) model, they botched it by not having uniformity among the various MCA models.

    You can still get the original IBM model M keyboard.

    And this will allow you to plug it into a USB port.
    Last edited by mrjimphelps; 2015-09-29 at 13:33.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •