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  1. #1
    3 Star Lounger Backspacer's Avatar
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    Standing back and taking a breath - Win 10 upgrade questions

    My small business owns 7 PCs. I try to keep all in sync with the same OS - currently Win7 Pro. I have learned the hard way not to ever get the newest OS (or more software) as soon as it is out. So I've been holding off on Win10. I have been deluged with information on it and it has been hard to ferret out the bits that matter to me. Since things have been moving on for a while, here are some questions that have congealed in my mind:

    1. I would like to install Win10 on my own desktop computer to try familiarizing myself with it. But I do not wish to risk my Win7 installation. I read somewhere that you can't even install it on a Virtual PC without invalidating your Win7 registration at Microsoft HQ. I assume that means that cloning the disk for possible recovery would not work? So what can I do?
    1a. Can I buy a whole new license?
    1b. If I do that and later decide to upgrade my Win7 can I re-install that same new license over my Win7 OS?
    1c. Can I install the new license on a separate bootable drive or partition without risking my Win7 installation?
    1d. Any other suggestions?

    2. I think I read somewhere that Win10 is cloud-oriented? Is that true and if so what does it mean for an OS to interface to the cloud? I am very suspicious of this. Sure, every cloud has a silver lining, but I'm from the Pacific Northwet and I'll tell you this: there is a lot more rain in clouds than silver. Yeah, of course everyone in the industry will tell you that it's all safe and hunky dory and everything, but they always claim that right up until catastrophe hits. I've got a whole pile of letters on my desk in front of me right now from various institutions telling me that their websites or network were compromised and offering free credit monitoring. Great, so the horse is out of the barn, but they'll tell me for free if it is later found dead. Lotta good that does.
    2a. Is it possible and practical to use Win10 without the cloud and with equal functionality to Win7?

    3. How long will the free upgrades be free? And do they upgrade to the same level? I use Win7 Pro mostly because I need the RDP functionality and because the networking is better than the basic or Home variety. Will I still have those capabilities if I take the free upgrade?

    4. I've heard of people being upgraded overnight without their consent. Is that for real?
    4a. This is nightmarish to me. And it will become much more nightmarish in a few weeks when I move 1200 miles away from my store for the winter. The store must keep operating without me and I do all sysadmin through RDP. What if the employees restart the system at night, and in the morning it is different? Will I even be able to login to try and make sure everything still works for them? Two of these are Point of Sale cash registers and all are used in the daily operation of the business. If I can't fix them remotely I will need to get on a plane and fly back up here on very short notice (very expensive!) to fix the problem that I didn't even create. So you can see the reason for my concern.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Backspacer; 2015-09-25 at 17:12.

  2. #2
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    1. If you upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10, you will have 30 days to roll back to roll back to Windows 7. After 30 days. it will delete the roll back file. So your Windows 7 license is good for at least those 30 days

    I think it's good for longer than that, and you can restore from backup, but I'm not certain about that.

    1a I don't think you can buy a new license from a retailer, and if you buy one in a private sale, you better know and trust the seller, but yes you can.

    1b If you roll back within 30 days you don't need to do that, and I think that you can restore from backup after that.

    1c ?

    1d Backup, backup, backup! Both file backup and Image backup.

    2 Yes it is cloud oriented. They will try to get you to sign up for cloud storage, Office 360, Azure, etc, etc. I'm not interested, so I haven't done any of it.

    2b Yes.

    3 for one year from July 29, 2015. I think this means midnight PDT July 28, 2016, but they could stop it at some other time. And there will probably be a last minute rush. If you wait until July 28, you may not be able to connect to a server. Probably better to do it before the 4th of July to be safe.

    4 I've heard about it too, but I'm not sure exactly how it works. It should not do that.

    4a. I don't think it will happen, as long as none of your employees accept the "invitation", but Microsoft wants very much to get everyone on Windows 10.

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  4. #3
    3 Star Lounger Backspacer's Avatar
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    Wow, thanks for all those answers. I should have given this one its own number:

    I use Win7 Pro mostly because I need the RDP functionality and because the networking is better than the basic or Home variety. Will I still have those capabilities if I take the free upgrade? Or will the free one just be the Home level?

  5. #4
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    You will have the same capabilities. Win 7 Pro upgrade to Win 10 Pro.

    Jerry

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    You can try a 90 day evaluation of the Enterprise SKU at Windows 10 Enterprise. You can set it up in a dual boot on in a VM.

    Joe

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  9. #6
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    4. There is an article in the latest newsletter showing how to prevent the upgrade permanently. You can still upgrade manually.

    cheers, Paul

  10. #7
    WS Lounge VIP Coochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspacer View Post
    ...4. I've heard of people being upgraded overnight without their consent. Is that for real?...
    In some cases yes. I have attended a number of customers whose Win7/Win8.1 computers had automatically upgraded to Win10 without the customer being prompted for consent. I suspect this applies when Windows Update is set to "Install updates automatically..." and the "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates" checkbox is ticked (I have seen several cases when that checkbox was not ticked and the auto-upgrade to Win10 was not happening).

    Quote Originally Posted by Backspacer View Post
    ...4a. This is nightmarish to me. And it will become much more nightmarish in a few weeks when I move 1200 miles away from my store for the winter. The store must keep operating without me and I do all sysadmin through RDP. What if the employees restart the system at night, and in the morning it is different? Will I even be able to login to try and make sure everything still works for them? Two of these are Point of Sale cash registers and all are used in the daily operation of the business. If I can't fix them remotely I will need to get on a plane and fly back up here on very short notice (very expensive!) to fix the problem that I didn't even create...
    I'd suggest your safest strategy would be to allow each of your Win7 systems to install the various "GWX" updates; once the "GWX" icon appears in the system tray run "GWX Control Panel" (download from: http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ more info at: http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/ ) to disable the GWX nags and (more importantly) disable the auto-upgrade to Win10. If, after several months, you decide you want to upgrade to Win10 you need only re-run "GWX Control Panel" on each system and enable the auto-upgrade to Win10.
    Computer Consultant/Technician since 1998 (first PC was Atari 1040STE in 1988).
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  12. #8
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    +1 for GWX Control Panel

    I second the vote for GWX_Control_Panel [GCP] from the ultimateoutsider blog. Have used it on quite a few customer's computers and all are happy.

    BUT: Microsoft may at a future date well come up with yet another set of tricks that GCP then will not know about. I trust that the person behind ultimateoutsider will come up with a solution for that as well but we have to remain vigilant.
    Eike J Heinze
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  13. #9
    3 Star Lounger Backspacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coochin View Post
    I suspect this applies when Windows Update is set to "Install updates automatically..." and the "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates" checkbox is ticked (I have seen several cases when that checkbox was not ticked and the auto-upgrade to Win10 was not happening).
    A year or so ago I got so tired of going around manually updating all of my systems and never seeming to reject an update, so I put them all on automatic. I just went around to all of them and switched them back to manual. I'm sure I will probably upgrade to Win10 at some point, but hopefully this will give me a year for the OS to settle out.

    I'd suggest your safest strategy would be to allow each of your Win7 systems to install the various "GWX" updates; once the "GWX" icon appears in the system tray run "GWX Control Panel" (download from: http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ more info at: http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/ ) to disable the GWX nags and (more importantly) disable the auto-upgrade to Win10. If, after several months, you decide you want to upgrade to Win10 you need only re-run "GWX Control Panel" on each system and enable the auto-upgrade to Win10.
    So GWX comes in through Windows Update, but I have to install an after-market control panel to use it? Weird, but I'm sure if I knew what it did it would probably make sense. I'll look into this. Something more to learn. It seems like the stuff out there to learn is increasing geometrically, while my ability to learn it is linear. At some point the difference will be so great that I will effectively be in a coma.

  14. #10
    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
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    So GWX comes in through Windows Update, but I have to install an after-market control panel to use it?
    Yes, the GWX comes from primarily KB3035583. There are a few updates that you may have on your computers that will affect getting win 10 ( since you had them on auto install ) so if you have them installed, just uninstall them, reboot and run Windows update again and "Hide" them.
    Here are the ones I know about for win 7.
    KB3021917
    KB2952664
    KB3035583
    KB2977759
    KB3050265
    KB3068708

    You can always go back if you want to install win 10 and "Unhide" them to install.

  15. #11
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    GWX control panel exists because MS didn't give us control of the upgrade process. Nothing weird there.

    cheers, Paul

  16. #12
    3 Star Lounger Backspacer's Avatar
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    Here's something weird. I went and looked at my update history. 3035583 was installed on 7/21. And then, beginning on 8/2 the following entry appears from one to three times a day: "Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro ... failed". I don't know why it has been failing. The computers are on all night and nobody is seeing any prompts for or against upgrading (other than the invitation to do so and that only appears once every two or three days.) "Install suggested updates automatically" has been on this whole time. It seems like we should have been victimized almost two months ago. I don't know why it didn't happen, but I guess that makes me pretty lucky!

  17. #13
    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
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    but I guess that makes me pretty lucky!
    So far

  18. #14
    3 Star Lounger Backspacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumpy95 View Post
    So far
    Like the dog in your avatar, I live in the moment...

  19. #15
    WS Lounge VIP Coochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspacer View Post
    ...beginning on 8/2 the following entry appears from one to three times a day: "Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro ... failed"...
    That usually means the PC is repeatedly trying to upgrade to Win10 but something is causing the upgrade to fail. Use the "GWX Control Panel" (see my #7 post) to disable the auto-upgrade.
    Computer Consultant/Technician since 1998 (first PC was Atari 1040STE in 1988).
    Most common computing error is EBKAC: Error Between Keyboard And Chairback
    AMD FX8120 (8-core @ 3.1GHz) CPU, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-D3 motherboard, 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1866MHz RAM, ATI-AMD Radeon HD6770 PCI-E VGA, 480GB Kingston SSD, 2TB Seagate SATA3.0 HDD, ASUS DVD/RW.

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