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  1. #1
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    Beware Windows 10 upgrade -- may be worse than people are saying

    When Windows 10 was offered as a free upgrade to my Window 7 home desktop, I looked to tech writers for advice, especially the Windows Secrets columnists, and I did what they suggested was the sensible thing by waiting until the 2nd week of October to do the upgrade, giving Microsoft a chance to iron out some wrinkles. I'll get to my problems in a moment, but the main point I want to make is this --

    Yesterday, having reached the limit of my frustration, I went into my local computer shop to see what could be done. I'd hardly opened my mouth to say that I'd bought my computer from his shop and did an upgrade to Windows 10 than he cut me off and said, "You don't have Internet and sound, right?" That's not exactly my problem, but I was surprised that his response was so quick and certain. As we talked, he told me that Windows 10 in his experience has been the worst upgrade ever, worse than Windows 8, that it affects differently configured machines differently, and creates a multitude of problems all over the system. He says his shop is full of machines suffering various problems caused by the upgrade.

    Since I'd spent just over a month trying to find a fix for my problem, going past the cutoff date, I was no longer able to follow his first advice, namely, to roll back to Windows 7. If I wanted to, he could do a backup of all my data and re-install Windows 7. If, a few years down the road I decide I want Windows 10 (perhaps because 7 is no longer supported), then I'll have to buy a new copy.

    I feel let down by my online tech advisers. My main guides, the Windows Secrets crew, lulled me into thinking things were pretty smooth overall, with just the odd hitch here and there. That trust led me not to roll back to Win7 as soon as problems cropped up, so I lost my main opportunity to get a fully functioning system. Now I have what appears to be a permanently crippled system. My only hope is that a Microsoft service pack will fix the drivers I need. Or I'll have to pay the money and inconvenience of re-installing Windows 7.

    So what were my specific problems? I had two. The first is something of an annoyance. Win10 will not Sleep, only Hibernate (power down after saving the current state of affairs). It's not devastating, but I'm not real happy about it. I gather it has to do with the driver for my motherboard. I did search for and installed a driver update, but that did not help. But the killer for me is about sound. I use Audacity all the time to record and edit sound. When I launched Audacity, it told me it could not detect any audio device and could not record. I searched for and installed a driver for Realtek HD Audio Device (I think it was called), but it didn't help. The discussion forums for Audacity show that many people have this problem. In my case, sound playback was OK. I found a couple of other free audio programs to see if they would work better than Audacity, and although they are able to (record sort of), the quality is terrible and quite unusable.

    So I am warning my friends that things might be much worse with the Win10 update than some people are saying and suggesting they stick with the OS they now have. I am very disappointed that Windows Secrets did not give sufficient warning for me to benefit from the same advice. I was certainly shocked to learn that my local computer shop is having a much different experience of upgrades than is hinted at in Windows Secrets.

  2. #2
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    I've seen plenty advice in the WSL to warn people to create a full external image before upgrading and even if you have an older system image of Win 7, you could still restore with that but would lose recently downloaded material unless you backed that up separately beforehand.

    If you are using an OEM machine you would have had the provision to create recovery disks which is a copy of what is in the Recovery partition, but you can buy a Recovery disk for your make and model of computer from the vendor.

    It just means that you will have to reinstall any programs along with product keys for the Pro ones and Office can be troublesome when it comes to the count of licence keys, updating the likes of Adobe and Java and then the dreaded Windows updates which you could leave downloading/installing over night - but that would need to be done anyway with a clean install of Win 7 - just may be a cheaper option than having a tech doing it.

  3. #3
    jwoods
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    A 5-minute search through the newsletter archives produced three articles of less than stellar experiences with the upgrade...

    http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/...ed-experience/

    http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/...s-only-a-week/

    http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/...rt-call-traffi

  4. #4
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    Windows 10 upgrade nightmares are well documented here and on many other forums, and have been reported for months.
    Cheers,

    Paul Edstein
    [MS MVP - Word]

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by macropod View Post
    Windows 10 upgrade nightmares are well documented here and on many other forums, and have been reported for months.
    But without knowing how many have not had issues, knowing how many have is useless. There might be a million people having trouble, but if 100 million have updated, the problem is only 1%. I'd be pretty happy if only 1% needed assistance. Particularly when most have no experience upgrading their OS.

  6. #6
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    Even 1% demonstrates incompetence in rolling out the upgrade. Taking your 100 million figure, that might mean 1 million people have had their systems broken in one way or another. I find it strange you think that's acceptable. Plus, 1 million people taking a class action against MS over the damage done and losses incurred would put MS out of business. In my own case, I'm out-of-pocket hundreds of dollars and lost countless hours rebuilding two Win 7 systems because of how MS rolled out the 'upgrade' and thoroughly trashed both systems. And I'm far from being one who fits your "most have no experience upgrading their OS" description. I've also helped out others who've had problems with Win 10 upgrades.
    Cheers,

    Paul Edstein
    [MS MVP - Word]

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to macropod For This Useful Post:

    DavidToronto (2015-11-22)

  8. #7
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    Let's see, what did they say?

    Your 1st link: "Conclusion: So far, this is turning out to be an almost painless upgrade. Not perfect, but very, very good!"

    Your 2nd link: "My experience was likely worse than most. But you should nevertheless take it as a warning — be prepared for unexpected consequences. If you’re ready — with either experience or time — to tackle the potential problems following a migration to Windows 10, put the upgrade off for a few months." [Which I did.}

    Your 3rd link: [Closer to my experience] "It was no surprise that many callers wanted to return to Win7 or 8.1. But I was surprised that reverting to the previous OS didn’t always work — even within the 30-day grace period."

    I don't think this adds up to fair warning. My system seems to be permanently crippled. It looks like drivers will never be available for my aging, yet nevertheless perfectly good machine (before the upgrade). That warrants more than a "Wait a few months" or "Overall very, very good!"
    Last edited by DavidToronto; 2015-11-22 at 21:21.

  9. #8
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    I can't say I saw the warnings to create a full external image. I do have my data backed up. Image backups have always been a problem for me, so I don't have one. Mine is not an OEM machine, so Recovery disks are not an option.

    Curses on that nagging message popping up every day reminding me to upgrade!

    Could we blame Microsoft rather than the user, please?
    Last edited by DavidToronto; 2015-11-22 at 21:23.

  10. #9
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    I can thoroughly empathise - on one of my trashed machines, the 'upgrade' rendered the OEM recovery partition inaccessible. My recovery disc also didn't work (I found out later that was because I had a genuine MS wireless mouse connected while trying to do the recovery...). Consequently I had to start off with a basic Win 7 iso, find & download all the drivers, install the OS & drivers, install all the OS updates (excluding those related to Win 10), reinstall all my applications, install all the application updates, reconfigure various applications, restore all my data files, etc., etc. All the OS downloads & updates, plus the application updates had to be done at public libraries, etc., because the unwanted Win 10 upgrades had already blown my monthly download limit (hence me being out of pocket hundreds of dollars).
    Cheers,

    Paul Edstein
    [MS MVP - Word]

  11. #10
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    Frankly, if other third party companies produced software that caused so many problems, they would soon be out of business. Even if the problems are only 1% of 110 million installations, that is 1.1 million users experiencing problems. That is not a drop in the bucket, it is a deluge.

    My personal experiences with Windows 10 are dreadful and required a downgrade to the previous OS via a system image (because not even a revert was successful).

    User results may vary, because I know people with much older systems that upgraded successfully; my systems did not, even though they are less than 2 years old.

    People that upgraded successfully are usually very pleased with the upgrade, but the 1.1 million people that could not upgrade successfully are not.

    I absolutely won't upgrade to a marginal system from a fully functioning system. This is supposed to be an Operating System. If it doesn't Operate, then it is a bust. Somebody at Microsoft needs to be fired without a golden parachute.

  12. #11
    jwoods
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    Frankly, every system is actually a custom system.

    So, to expect an operating system to upgrade seamlessly, is out of proportion to what happens on a regular basis in the IT world.

    The web was littered with Windows 7 upgrade problems.

    You might look into the disk imaging software Macrium Reflect Free, and get that working on your system. Doing those on a regular basis, especially before doing a major system change (upgrade or not), can save hours of grief, and possibly all of your personal data, if you have an unrecoverable hard drive failure.

    http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

    To eliminate the upgrade nags, try the freeware tool GWX Control Panel...

    http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/201...ly-remove.html
    Last edited by jwoods; 2015-11-23 at 00:33.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwoods View Post
    to expect an operating system to upgrade seamlessly, is out of proportion to what happens on a regular basis in the IT world.
    Hardly. MS is no newcomer to the upgrade party and has managed to do quite well in that area for many years. In its rush to roll out Win 10, though, it's quite plain that what turns out to be a work in progress was far from properly tested. Why, one might ask, did the Win 7 upgrade installer insist on upgrading systems with software than MS says is not compatible with Win 10? And why were these upgrades inflicted on people who hadn't reserved them?

    Suggesting people create a disk image before upgrading when they had no intention of doing an upgrade in the first place misses the point entirely. In any event, as I have already said, my attempts to restore from a disk image failed for no other reason than having a wireless mouse connected. The restore would start off fine, allowing me to use the mouse to set various options, then go into a shutdown/restart loop with error messages mentioning nothing about the mouse. It was only after I encountered similar results when re-installing from a Win 7 iso that I worked out what had been going on.
    Cheers,

    Paul Edstein
    [MS MVP - Word]

  14. #13
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    I guess the key lesson to withdraw from here is that you should not take anyone else's experience for granted, especially because your hardware will be different and any OS upgrade can bring drivers issues. Drivers are one of the thorniest of issues to deal with, and that is only partially Microsoft's fault. Drivers are supposed to be provided by hardware manufacturers, even if Microsoft provides default drivers in many cases... but not all.

    David, sorry if this sounds blunt, but if you are a Windows Secrets reader, imaging should already be on your tools arsenal and you should have taken an image before the upgrade. That would allow you a rollback to your previous OS without any troubles.

    It's never too late to get on the imaging bandwagon. It was of no use for these migration issues, it can be of use for you next problem, whatever it may be. Start doing it now.
    Rui
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    R4

  15. #14
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    David, sorry if this sounds blunt, but if you are a Windows Secrets reader, imaging should already be on your tools arsenal and you should have taken an image before the upgrade. That would allow you a rollback to your previous OS without any troubles.

    It's never too late to get on the imaging bandwagon. It was of no use for these migration issues, it can be of use for you next problem, whatever it may be. Start doing it now.
    I couldn't agree more.
    Look, if you're going to upgrade, then you had better have your sh*t together beforehand.
    Be prepared to do the work as if you had to start all over again or don't undertake the effort at all until which time you are ready.

    I think there ought to be more focus on why some upgrades fail, but unfortunately that would require
    a considerable amount of searching and digging. That is something for which very few will ever do gratis.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
    Latest Build:
    ASUS X99 Deluxe, Core i7-5960X, Corsair Hydro H100i, Plextor M6e 256GB M.2 SSD, Corsair DOMINATOR Platinum 32GB DDR4@2666, W8.1 64 bit,
    EVGA GTX980, Seasonic PLATINUM-1000W PSU, MountainMods U2-UFO Case, and 7 other internal drives.

  16. #15
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    I agree. Mea culpa. Still, I wasn't just lazy. I used to keep regular backups until I began having trouble with them, first because I didn't have hard drive space, then because I had trouble saving them to an external drive, and I think more, too. I spent quite a bit of time trying to fix the problem and eventually gave up when I just couldn't get them to work.

    And I'd like to say, too, that while far from being a computer expert, my skills are well above the average user. So what about the zillions of Windows users who are being prodded to update to Windows 10? Is it realistic to expect all them to do an image backup, or should they be given a very severe warning of all the pitfalls possible from an upgrade (like those mandatory warnings pharmaceutical companies have to give in their TV ads) and told not to do anything if they can't first do an image backup?

    I wish I weren't committed so much to Windows. Apple is looking very good these days. I may buy one some day. Imagine the ease of working with a Macbook (sigh).

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