Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
  1. #1
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Red face Word2013 doing something REALLY weird

    [SOLVED]For some reason, on our network at the office which serves 350 people or so (I am the Word Maven, responsible for templates, etc.) is doing something I have never encountered on any other version of Word. My users are having their Normal.dotm blow up randomly, form a Normal.BAK in their home directory of templates, and then not even create a brand new reduced size Normal.dotm from Word!

    Our Normal.dotm has a few macros that all users need and is only 40K. The Normal.BAK seems to retain all of the 40K, plus any other additions each user has added along the way. The problem is fixable by me either swapping out their normal.dotm with a new normal.dotm, but then they lose their additions and changes. I recently discovered that if I change the .BAK to .dotm, the Normal is restored completely.

    My question is, however, why is it blowing up? We are trouble shooting it on our MIS team to see if another document management program (used by about 85% of the users) may be causing this corruption (???). My boss said, "why don't you query the forum to see if other people are experiencing this problem" so this is my question.

    We are using Windows 7, Office 2013.

    I appreciate all the assistance you can offer. I glean soooooo much from the Forum!
    Last edited by marydiva; 2015-12-04 at 14:18.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    3,852
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 259 Times in 239 Posts
    What Doc Management software are you using? We don't normally get questions like this here so a localised search is unlikely to reveal anything but if you put the name of the program into a Google search you might find out if it has a record of this type of problem.

    I would be exploring putting your Normal customisations into an addin (instead of Normal) to avoid the issue of users not being able to store their own customisations.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Andrew Lockton For This Useful Post:

    marydiva (2015-12-02)

  4. #3
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Thank you, Andrew, for all the info. I am checking about our doc management software already and am just awaiting a reply.

    We do use what I call "SuperNormals" in the Start-up area that load up for our specialized templates already. Maybe I need to add one more so will try this approach too.

    This forum rocks!

  5. #4
    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Sun Prairie, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,049
    Thanks
    124
    Thanked 119 Times in 116 Posts
    See http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide...tes.htm#Global. When you speak of super-normal templates, I hope that you are not talking about substituting a template created by you or another program for the normal template. I join Andrew in urging you to put shared resources in an Add-In or Global template.

    You need to distinguish between specialized document templates and global templates. You may be doing this already. The latter go into the Word Startup Folder; the former should be in the Workgroup Templates Folder. These are different types of templates and serve different purposes. They can work together.
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Charles Kenyon For This Useful Post:

    marydiva (2015-12-02)

  7. #5
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Charles, Be assured that I do know and keep the templates all separate. The Startup Folder has all the "SuperNormals" and load when each user starts their machine. Their personal templates, as well as their Normal.dotm, are in the Home area. And I have 386 separate templates in the Workgroup area, broken down by tabs as to their specificity.

    I am an old hat with Word and would say I am an advanced Developer, but always appreciate the reminders.

    Thank you for taking the time to make sure I was doing it correctly.

  8. #6
    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Sun Prairie, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,049
    Thanks
    124
    Thanked 119 Times in 116 Posts
    It sounded like you knew what you were doing. The admonition was primarily for people who might be reading this thread at a later time. For a number of users it is a real struggle to convince them to use a template instead of opening documents and using SaveAs.
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Charles Kenyon For This Useful Post:

    marydiva (2015-12-02)

  10. #7
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Charles: I love it! It's like what I use here at this office. Reinforcing what needs to go where and the importance of using 2k13 templates, not 2k7 templates. My experience is that no matter what Microsoft says, you have to upgrade all your templates to the new platform you are currently using (in this case 2013) and though it is easy to read and print old documents from other platforms, massive editings (which is what our office does to all their documents) to old-templated documents (from 2000, 007, 2010 or even earlier!) leads to disaster.

    It is always the easiest and safest route to take the content of a document and paste it as unformatted text into a newly generated, current year template. Then apply the new correct styles and Joila! Crashes, corruption, etc. are reduced and the multi-level numbering will work much better, etc.

    Have a happy gobble gobble and be safe.

  11. #8
    5 Star Lounger kmurdock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Pacific Grove, California, USA
    Posts
    716
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 34 Times in 28 Posts
    marydiva, have you tried just taking the handful of macros that all users need and placing in a separate template in the Startup folder?

    Document management systems used to install macros into Normal.dot and that was an on-going way of ensuring that Normal.dot would 'splode sooner rather than later. DMS have all pretty much abandoned this practice because of it and it would surprise me if yours is still doing it still.

    What's the nature of the macros in normal.dotm now? What kinds of things are they doing?
    Kim

  12. #9
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Kim: Thanks for replying.

    As I explained before, I have 3 superglobalnormals which load up when each user logs into the system. The normal.dotm for our office has its own UI and QAT attached to it, with a few very small macros in every person's normal.dotm --

    The first two are there because Word, since the beginning of time, does not reset the Spellchecker. If you spellcheck something that you SKIPPED a word, it acts as if it is ok even if it is an error. Hence, 2 macros -- one for Spelling complete ONLY, and one for Spell and Grammar (our users HATE Word's grammar!):

    Sub SpellingOnly()
    ' SpellingOnly Macro
    '
    'Sub SpellingPlusGrammar()
    ' SpellingPlusGrammar Macro
    '

    This pastes as unformatted text, so that anything from the web, other outside users, etc. is stripped down to normal style, and then we can apply our styles very easily.

    Sub PasteSpecialAsUnformattedText()
    ' PasteSpecialAsUnformattedText Macro
    '

    Some fields or dates need to be FINALIZED:

    Sub FreezeDateOrAnyFieldAndMakeItPermanentText()
    ' FreezeDateOrAnyFieldAndMakeItPermanentText Macro
    ' Unlinks the date field and converts it to text

    Sub FinalLocatorCode()
    ‘ FinalLocatorCode Macro
    ' Inserts Final Locator code of document path as permanent text


    We use 12pt and 24pt, instead of single and double space. This helps to line up with 24-ptd spacing when there is numbering in the side header (as used in pleadings):

    Sub Exactly12pt()
    ' Exactly12pt Macro

    Sub Exactly24pt()
    ' Exactly24pt Macro


    Another macro for a special condition of pasting:

    Sub PasteSpecialBetwDocsForBdOfSupsDocs()
    ' PasteSpecialBetwDocsForBdOfSupsDocs Macro
    '

    I hope this answers your question fully. I don't think it's anything in the normal. Our document management system vendor is supplying us with a new executable, which I hope will FINALLY rectify this problem. I'll let you know if it works. Again, thanks to all contributors -- the info I glean from this forum is invaluable and you are all rock stars.

    Happy holidays to you and yours, whatever holiday you celebrate!

    MaryDiva

  13. #10
    5 Star Lounger kmurdock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Pacific Grove, California, USA
    Posts
    716
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 34 Times in 28 Posts
    Hi MaryDiva,

    There's nothing in your Normal.dotm that couldn't go into a global template in Startup. Removing the macros from Normal.dotm just removes one other thing that might cause problems and/or make it easier to recover from one. It also makes it much easier to roll out a new macro when you have one--no more messing with whatever customizations have happened in the user's normal template. Good luck with the new executable!

    All the best, Kim

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kmurdock For This Useful Post:

    Charles Kenyon (2015-12-02),marydiva (2015-12-02)

  15. #11
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    You are absolutely right. You know, when the tree is right in front of you and you don't notice it!!!!! What a great idea and I will work on it for the rollout of 2016. Again more info and knowledge gleaned from this wonderful forum!

    MD

  16. #12
    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Sun Prairie, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,049
    Thanks
    124
    Thanked 119 Times in 116 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by kmurdock View Post
    ***

    There's nothing in your Normal.dotm that couldn't go into a global template in Startup. ***
    Exactly the point I was trying to make, but much more eloquent!
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

  17. #13
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    It looks like this may be solved, at least with Word 2013! The problem with the normal.dotms blowing up seems related to three things:

    1. the document the user is editing at the time may be a W2k7 or earlier version of Word document. Although W2k13 says it can take on all comers, if it says (Compatibility) in the heading of the name of the document, CONVERT it to a W2k13 version and make sure it is a .docx document. Then do your editing.

    2. If doing a spellcheck of the older versions of document, the blow up can happen then. Then your normal.dotm becomes NORMAL.BAK.

    3. We are awaiting our document management system's newest update. It used to convert to .doc NOT .docx. I'm sure when that is in place, our problems will evaporate.

    Thank all of you on this forum for all your helpful comments. I am forever grateful for the time and energy you all share with us.

    MotherMaryDiva

  18. #14
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    RE: Word 2013, Windows 7:

    A new wrinkle has popped up. I thought this challenge was solved, but now I have my doubts.

    For the last 1 1/2 months, since we installed Service Pack 1 for Office 2013, we have a rash of normal.dotms blowing up as described in the 1st post in this thread. And suddenly, in the last two days, the blow ups have increased to 75 users in one day!

    Trouble shooting brings this back to starting to occur from when we installed Service Pack 1 for Office 2013 in mid-November. I have been searching for any problems with that Service Pack that may have caused crashes. I don't know if a continuation of this post from me is where I should post this, or if it should be elsewhere in Woody's Lounge.

    I would appreciate any help any of you can give.

    Thanks, and happy holidays, MaryDiva

  19. #15
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Forever West
    Posts
    2,072
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 259 Times in 248 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by marydiva View Post
    I don't know if a continuation of this post from me is where I should post this, or if it should be elsewhere in Woody's Lounge.
    Does Woody's Lounge still exist as such or is this it?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •