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  1. #1
    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
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    GWX control Panel app users, Be aware MS is trying to defeat it

    MS has taken the gloves off and decided that win 7/8 users are going to get win 10 and there won't be a whole lot of choice unless you stop getting security updates altogether or wait to see which ones nail other people. They are offering many of the same/new updates with "gotchas" embedded in them. Their original plan of letting you choose if you want it was complete bull$hlt. If you don't want win 10, be careful out there.
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/30126...tml#tk.rss_all

    “Over Thanksgiving weekend I started getting reports that the Windows Update ‘AllowOSUpgrade’ setting was getting flipped back on on a number of peoples’ PCs, and it keeps re-setting itself at least once a day if they switch it back off,” said Josh Mayfield, the software engineer who created GWX Control Panel. The tool was originally designed to make the “Get Windows 10” (hence GWX) applet go away after Microsoft installed it on consumer and small business Windows 7 and 8.1 PCs starting in March, then activated in June.

    “This is new behavior, and it does leave your PC vulnerable to unwanted Windows 10 upgrade behavior,” he said.
    The upgrade war begins
    Concurrent with the release of GWX Control Panel 1.6, Mayfield began hearing from users that their PCs were being switched from a “do-not-upgrade-to-Windows-10” status to a “do-upgrade” state, often multiple times daily.

    In an interview Friday, Mayfield said that the Windows 10 upgrade setting switcheroo on Windows 7 and 8.1 PCs was apparently due to continued updates that Microsoft has shoved onto the older devices. The Redmond, Wash. company has repeatedly re-served its original GWX app to PCs, often with undocumented changes, even if the machine already had the app, or even if the user had managed to uninstall it previously.

    “Microsoft has released this update several times,” said Mayfield. “It doesn’t change the name of the update, but every version is new, with new binary files.”

  2. #2
    5 Star Lounger RussB's Avatar
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    WS Lounge VIP mrjimphelps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumpy95 View Post
    MS has taken the gloves off and decided that win 7/8 users are going to get win 10 and there won't be a whole lot of choice unless you stop getting security updates altogether or wait to see which ones nail other people. They are offering many of the same/new updates with "gotchas" embedded in them. Their original plan of letting you choose if you want it was complete bull$hlt. If you don't want win 10, be careful out there.
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/30126...tml#tk.rss_all
    I imagine you could leave automatic updates off, and then manually check for updates every couple of days. This would make the process of keeping "AllowOSUpgrade" off more manageable.

    It's more important that ever to make sure you have current full backups.

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    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
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    @mrjimphelps
    Luckily I have never had auto updates enabled. I have always used "Never check for updates" and check WU manually a couple times a month.
    I notice that MS repackaged KB3102810 from Nov. to KB3112343 for Dec. ( the "helpful" WU KB to get you from win 7 to win 10 with ease ).
    I also notice that it is taking a lot longer for WU to find the updates for win 7.

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    While this behavior may be upsetting, making a minor change and re-releasing the same patch is not that unusual. When you depend on third party software to block a patch you depend on the author to be able to keep up with changes in behavior. Microsoft is under no obligation to make it easy for a third party program to block updates. Remember, the statements from Microsoft said the installation of Windows 10 is optional not necessarily the download. Downloading the Windows 10 installer may be irritating and a big pain for anyone who has monthly download limits but just takes up a some disk space as long as the install is not done.

    Joe

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    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP517 View Post
    While this behavior may be upsetting, making a minor change and re-releasing the same patch is not that unusual. When you depend on third party software to block a patch you depend on the author to be able to keep up with changes in behavior. Microsoft is under no obligation to make it easy for a third party program to block updates. Remember, the statements from Microsoft said the installation of Windows 10 is optional not necessarily the download. Downloading the Windows 10 installer may be irritating and a big pain for anyone who has monthly download limits but just takes up a some disk space as long as the install is not done.

    Joe
    What you say is true Joe. I'm just disappointed/frustrated with MS on a trust level at this point and how hard they make it to refuse what is basically in their best interest. Then again, I guess we could all follow Drew's advice ( not a personal attack, just commenting on all of his post's ) and just let MS decide what's best for us no matter whether it makes a brick out of your computer or something that you totally don't want or need.
    As to monthly D/L limits ( which I am not on ) look at what happened to Macropod with time and money concerning win 10 in some of his previous post's.
    I have win 10 on a laptop and I'm just not impressed enough to want to upgrade the rest of my computers, which is obviously just a personal opinion and I certainly don't like being tricked and pushed into something that I really don't want yet.
    LOL, my rant for today Joe. Merry Christmas

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    The rant is totally understandable. I wish Microsoft had given some way to have control over the process for most advanced users even at some minor cost to the user. However, I do see this from Microsoft's view too. It is in everyone's best interest for Microsoft to be able to discard as much legacy baggage as possible and support as few OS variations as practical.

    Joe

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    MS would have to have changed the original KB3035583 update to fix its behaviour (i.e. stop it forcing upgrades on Win 7 systems. That has nothing to do with any alleged attempt to circumvent the GWX control panel. Since hiding that and related updates and running an earlier version of the GWX Control Panel, only the KB3035583 update re-appeared on my system - once. Presumably that was when MS fixed & re-released it.
    Quote Originally Posted by lumpy95 View Post
    I notice that MS repackaged KB3102810 from Nov. to KB3112343 for Dec. ( the "helpful" WU KB to get you from win 7 to win 10 with ease ).
    That is quite wrong; they're entirely different updates and neither is concerned with Win 7 to Win 10 upgrades. I suggest you read the relevant MSKB articles.
    Quote Originally Posted by lumpy95 View Post
    I also notice that it is taking a lot longer for WU to find the updates for win 7.
    Which is exactly what the KB3102810 update addressed. If you've not installed it, that may explain your system's continuing poor performance in that regard.
    Cheers,

    Paul Edstein
    [MS MVP - Word]

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP517 View Post
    The rant is totally understandable. I wish Microsoft had given some way to have control over the process for most advanced users even at some minor cost to the user. However, I do see this from Microsoft's view too. It is in everyone's best interest for Microsoft to be able to discard as much legacy baggage as possible and support as few OS variations as practical.

    Joe
    (I'll try to be nice this time...)

    Microsoft set their end-of-life dates for 2020 for Win7 and 2023 for Win8.1. We users didn't set those dates, Microsoft did. I really don't give a rip if it's in Microsoft's best interest, they have no business forcing us to upgrade when they themselves promised to support these two OS's for a few more years. So they can back off. I've already set my machines to never check for updates, and I check them manually after Patch Tuesday every month, but only after checking reliable sources like WinSecrets or Ask Woody first.

    I've already set my computers up to dual boot with Linux, and as I run Linux 90% or more of the time, when 2020 does roll around, unless MS can be trusted again (doubtful), then I'm likely to give up running Windows at home.

  11. #10
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schajw View Post
    (I'll try to be nice this time...)

    Microsoft set their end-of-life dates for 2020 for Win7 and 2023 for Win8.1. We users didn't set those dates, Microsoft did. I really don't give a rip if it's in Microsoft's best interest, they have no business forcing us to upgrade when they themselves promised to support these two OS's for a few more years.
    We all have to remember that MS is a business and as such their goal is to make a profit (Yes it is the capitalist system, still the best IMHO). End of Life should really read End of Support as the OS doesn't die you can use it for as long as you like it just won't get any updates or patches after those dates, ask all those still using XP. As you state you can easily turn off Automatic updates or in my case use the GWX control panel and keep it updated. You can, also as you state, switch to a Linux variation of your choice.

    What, IMHO, you can't do is fault MS for being what they are a business. If they don't deliver what the users/businesses want they will either change or die or just fade away (Word Perfect, I still think it was awesome; Lotus 123; WordStar; SuperCalc, another of my favs; Osborne; etc. the list is endless).

    The great thing about PCs is if you don't like what is offered you can always roll your own. Can I recommend a book on OS design?

    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    PowerShell & VBA Rule!

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  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredGeek View Post
    We all have to remember that MS is a business and as such their goal is to make a profit (Yes it is the capitalist system, still the best IMHO). End of Life should really read End of Support as the OS doesn't die you can use it for as long as you like it just won't get any updates or patches after those dates, ask all those still using XP. As you state you can easily turn off Automatic updates or in my case use the GWX control panel and keep it updated. You can, also as you state, switch to a Linux variation of your choice.

    What, IMHO, you can't do is fault MS for being what they are a business. If they don't deliver what the users/businesses want they will either change or die or just fade away (Word Perfect, I still think it was awesome; Lotus 123; WordStar; SuperCalc, another of my favs; Osborne; etc. the list is endless).

    The great thing about PCs is if you don't like what is offered you can always roll your own. Can I recommend a book on OS design?

    Yes, a business, but one who offered the equivalent of a warranty on their products, extended support until certain dates are reached. If they don't want to honor the commitments they made, then their credibility and trustworthiness goes out the window. Their behavior, shoving the Win10 update files onto our PC's (it happened to me, all 3.2 GB that I never asked for) and now essentially declaring war on GWX CP by resetting the registry entries is akin to a car manufacturer showing up with a tow truck in your driveway and threatening to tow away your old car, leaving a new one with features you do not want in its place. In fact, it's not just threatening to tow away your old car, it's actually hooking it up to the tow truck. It's one thing for MS as a business (or the car manufacturer) to be pushy with sales, it's another to start the replacement process without permission. That's the part that burns me (and a bunch of other people) up.

    Ah, yes, Supercalc and WordStar, and running under DOS 3.x at that. I remember using "non-document" mode in WS to edit program source code (dBase III+, FoxBASE and Clipper Summer 87). Those were the days, writing C and Assembler code on the 286 or 386 to extend functionality (like quick screen saves/restores, etc.). I miss those days.

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    No one has said Microsoft is not going to honor the support commitments. They will. There are too many business customers who would end up taking them to court if the support dates were not honored. Short of making the operating system malfunction or intentionally forcing mass upgrades they are free to try to get users to upgrade. You and I may not like the tactics used. I particularly do not like downloading without permission. Remember that they are under no obligation to ensure that a third party program, which disables a portion of Windows Update, continues to work.

    Joe

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  16. #13
    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macropod View Post
    MS would have to have changed the original KB3035583 update to fix its behaviour (i.e. stop it forcing upgrades on Win 7 systems. That has nothing to do with any alleged attempt to circumvent the GWX control panel. Since hiding that and related updates and running an earlier version of the GWX Control Panel, only the KB3035583 update re-appeared on my system - once. Presumably that was when MS fixed & re-released it.
    That is quite wrong; they're entirely different updates and neither is concerned with Win 7 to Win 10 upgrades. I suggest you read the relevant MSKB articles.

    Which is exactly what the KB3102810 update addressed. If you've not installed it, that may explain your system's continuing poor performance in that regard.
    As per your advice I installed KB3102810 and it made no difference, actually it now takes longer to find win 7 updates so I guess I will uninstall it. Thanks for the clarification in the repackaging comment that I made though.

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    Silver Lounger wavy's Avatar
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    FWIW
    The Reg hack and Don't check for updates w/ an eye out for hiding the W10 bomb updates still working for me.
    David

    Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

  18. #15
    jwoods
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    GWX Control Panel and Check for updates but let me choose... continue to work well for me.

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