Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 53
  1. #1
    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Mojave Desert CA
    Posts
    1,841
    Thanks
    258
    Thanked 174 Times in 147 Posts

    Susan Bradley's take on WINDOWS 10 AND THE FORCED RELEASE

    Susan tell's it like it is, Thanks Susan
    http://blogs.msmvps.com/bradley/

    First and foremost I think Microsoft is being a bully on the Internet. A big bully. The manner in which Windows 10 has been pushed out the patching channel has me seriously questioning if I want to be associated with this Company going forward. I certainly am na´ve about the patching practices of this company. A few years ago I would have insisted that Microsoft would never ever allow a patch to be installed without express permission.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to lumpy95 For This Useful Post:

    Fascist Nation (2016-05-24)

  3. #2
    3 Star Lounger djohnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Delaware City, Delaware
    Posts
    323
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 32 Times in 30 Posts
    I have never known of Microsoft forcing Windows 10 on anyone. It always requires user intervention of some sort. Upgrading just does not happen by itself. That being said, I have never put much stock in what Susan Bradley says anyway. She always advises to wait on important updates. I always install the updates ASAP. I have never had an issue. IMHO the Windows Secrets newsletter has deteriorated rapidly in recent months, even over the past two years. It is practically worthless as a viable source of information these days. Such a pity.
    Last edited by djohnson; 2016-05-23 at 23:37.

  4. #3
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Durham UK
    Posts
    6,603
    Thanks
    147
    Thanked 847 Times in 809 Posts
    If you have Windows Update set to auto then you will get all of the updates - warts 'n all.

    Both you and I seem to have been fortunate with updates but a particular update in 2011 stopped some machines from booting up and I think this was the case also 2 or 3 years back for some - but would have to be reported before it was known about.

    I always vet any updates before allowing them, but when an update appears otherwise benign, that could just have easily have happened to either of us.

    I've never followed Susan Bradley either and made my own decisions.

  5. #4
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Praha
    Posts
    988
    Thanks
    56
    Thanked 105 Times in 90 Posts
    Pull is always better than push in the long run.

    Maybe Microsoft didn't have the time to wait . . . it's a shame that there is so little of immediate user benefit in Windows 10, to provide at least some pull to offset the aggressiveness of the push.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to MartinM For This Useful Post:

    brino (2016-05-26)

  7. #5
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Delaware, US
    Posts
    1,160
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 99 Times in 88 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by djohnson View Post
    I have never known of Microsoft forcing Windows 10 on anyone. It always requires user intervention of some sort.
    Yes and no. Let me put it another way.

    I don't think it likely that someone who is quite methodical and diligent and careful to scrutinize their actions is likely to have Win10 suddenly appear unasked for. But it's like the people who end up with a Yahoo or Ask search bar in their browser - it's true that they probably gave it permission to install but were unaware of that because it came with something else.

    All in all, while it may be the case that people are really only getting what they ask for, it none-the-less falls in the same type of surpriseware (my term) category that all unasked for software falls into. It's clear from your message that you trust Microsoft to do the right thing since you state you always install updates ASAP. I'm assuming you have upgraded to Win10 and now have it set to do automatic upgrades. If you are happy with that, then fine.

    I have one Win7 computer that I use for business and if it ever got "accidentally" upgraded to Win10, I would be screwed since I already know that there's something on it that won't upgrade. Until such time as the client (a multi-national) I work for decides to switch I have to stay with Win7.
    Graham Smith
    DataSmith, Delaware
    "For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert.", Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - 2008)

  8. #6
    Star Lounger
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    93
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    People that get 'surpriseware' didn't pay attention to each of the screens that were presented during an upgrade of some product or a product install. I have never seen 'surpriseware' hidden in a Microsoft upgrade.

  9. #7
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Delaware, US
    Posts
    1,160
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 99 Times in 88 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mmi16 View Post
    People that get 'surpriseware' didn't pay attention to each of the screens that were presented during an upgrade of some product or a product install.
    True, but should every user be expected to be expert enough to read and understand what each of those screens says and does? If I buy a box of cereal, I don't expect to open it and find a mix of cereal and dog food even if it says "contains dog food" somewhere on the package.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi16 View Post
    I have never seen 'surpriseware' hidden in a Microsoft upgrade.
    If mixing the Win10 upgrade in with Win7 updates doesn't constitute supriseware, I don't know what does. How many people look at updates carefully enough to know what's being installed? For that matter, how many people can figure out what's being installed even if they are being careful?

    While there's no way to determine this, I'd wager that a significant percentage of the people who now have Win10 never saw it coming. The had automatic updates set and did the same thing they had always done - push whatever buttons Windows told them to push. It sort of reminds me of the line in Animal House, "You can't spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You f***d up... you trusted us!"
    Graham Smith
    DataSmith, Delaware
    "For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert.", Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - 2008)

  10. #8
    3 Star Lounger djohnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Delaware City, Delaware
    Posts
    323
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 32 Times in 30 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinM View Post
    it's a shame that there is so little of immediate user benefit in Windows 10, to provide at least some pull to offset the aggressiveness of the push.
    What!!?!?!?? Windows 10 is so far superior to anything else MS has released it is pathetic. The user benefit is tremendous!

  11. #9
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    6,792
    Thanks
    116
    Thanked 798 Times in 719 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by djohnson View Post
    What!!?!?!?? Windows 10 is so far superior to anything else MS has released it is pathetic. The user benefit is tremendous!
    That's personal opinion that not everyone agrees with. While I like Windows 10 myself, I wouldn't presume that everyone else does.

    Jerry

  12. #10
    WS Lounge VIP mrjimphelps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,396
    Thanks
    445
    Thanked 404 Times in 376 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by djohnson View Post
    What!!?!?!?? Windows 10 is so far superior to anything else MS has released it is pathetic. The user benefit is tremendous!
    That's what some people said when Microsoft went from a desktop interface (Windows 7) to a tile interface (Windows 8).

    But there were lots of us who preferred the desktop interface. I actually tried the tile interface for about a month. I was determined to give it an honest go before writing it off. After about a month, I had had all of it I could stand, so I installed StartIsBack, and I then actually liked using Windows 8.

    If what I was saying wasn't true, then the "start button" add in programs (StartIsBack, Classic Shell, etc) would never have gotten much traction. But they have been very popular and in high demand, because there really are a lot of us out there who prefer the desktop interface.

    I have heard LOTS of stories of people who got Windows 10 forced on them, without their consent. And many writers (Susan Bradley, Woody Leonhard, Paul Thurrott, etc) report this as well. In fact, a forced upgrade actually happened to Woody on a test Windows 7 machine. The writer of the "GWX Control Panel" program said that he wrote the program because many of his customers got upgraded to Windows 10 without their consent.

    If Windows 10 was so superior, like you describe it, then Microsoft wouldn't have to force it on people; they would be lined up to get it. Instead, people have to put up a force field, to keep Microsoft from forcing it on their computers.

    The world is a diverse place. Not everyone is going to like what you like. And neither will everyone like what I like. I hope one day you will come to realize that.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mrjimphelps For This Useful Post:

    bagg44 (2016-06-10),brino (2016-05-26)

  14. #11
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Delaware, US
    Posts
    1,160
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 99 Times in 88 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by djohnson View Post
    What!!?!?!?? Windows 10 is so far superior to anything else MS has released it is pathetic. The user benefit is tremendous!
    I would say that the same is true of WinNT and Win2000 but the majority of users stuck with Win95 and Win98.

    Win10 may be technologically superior to prior releases, but the extensive interface changes in Win8 and Win10 can be confusing to those used to WinXP and Win7. As a friend of mine has been known to say, "I hate software engineers. They love to change things, whether they need changing or not."

    People usually don't like it when they come back from work and discover that the house has been completely redecorated when all they wanted was to have the carpets cleaned.
    Graham Smith
    DataSmith, Delaware
    "For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert.", Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - 2008)

  15. #12
    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Mojave Desert CA
    Posts
    1,841
    Thanks
    258
    Thanked 174 Times in 147 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by djohnson View Post
    What!!?!?!?? Windows 10 is so far superior to anything else MS has released it is pathetic. The user benefit is tremendous!
    As Jerry said, that's personal opinion.

    A quote from Susan that I totally agree with:
    But Susan… you ask…. Shouldn’t you be doing all you can to move folks up to Windows 10?

    To that I answer… it’s not that plain and simple. Windows is a messy ecosystem and if you could assure me that EVERY application would still work, all printers, all devices, everything worked 100% with Windows 10 I would say that I should be shutting up and be glad this is happening as it puts people on a patching model that won’t have supercedence issues in the future. But here’s the thing, people have old stuff. People can’t always afford to buy a new printer at the drop of a hat or buy new software every time there’s an major release that causes it to no longer work. And unless Microsoft can guarantee that they will work with every vendor to make every application and printer and device and driver work, then they shouldn’t be so heavy handed in pushing out Windows 10 like they should.

    The technology world in which we live in is not a dictatorship. And these actions that Microsoft is taking is damaging the brand of Microsoft in all of the IT pro communities I am in and in all the patching communities I am in. There is no more Windows loyalty, no more trust that Microsoft doesn’t have an ulterior motive in it’s actions.
    I put W10 Pro on 1 computer and it is OK..... but IMHO it wasn't ready to be forced down peoples throats as it has been lately. Especially since it wasn't (yet) geared to include a lot of existing peripherals and apps currently used.
    As an OS I'm sure that at some point W10 will be great, but the business model that MS has taken leaves a lot to be desired especially to people that are not as fortunate and ( I assume as computer literate ) as you djohnson.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to lumpy95 For This Useful Post:

    A1ex (2016-05-27),brino (2016-05-26)

  17. #13
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    926
    Thanks
    554
    Thanked 137 Times in 128 Posts
    https://www.thurrott.com/windows/win...ing-windows-10

    ".... if you click the “Close” window box, you are actually agreeing to the upgrade. Without you knowing what just happened. ...."

  18. #14
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    926
    Thanks
    554
    Thanked 137 Times in 128 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjimphelps View Post
    .... If Windows 10 was so superior, ... then Microsoft wouldn't have to force it on people; they would be lined up to get it [for free]. Instead, people have to put up a force field, to keep Microsoft from forcing it on their computers. ....
    I modified the above, but I think the above nutshell logically sums up reality in an irrefutable statement. It doesn't mean Win10 is bad. But when upgrading is free, and the majority refuse, and the company responds by tricking its customers into upgrading what does it say about the product and the company?

    You are trusting this company with upgrading your PC, sending back numerous usage information, allowing advertising on your PC and deciding what apps you are allowed or not allowed to run via the MS Store. You are also seeing MS not supporting newer components on older still supported OS'.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Fascist Nation For This Useful Post:

    brino (2016-05-26)

  20. #15
    Star Lounger
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    93
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Been playing with bits and bytes since the middle 70's.

    Everyone likes what they like, they like what they have become comfortable using - all they want is for something new to do what they are doing faster and easier. Change is hard to accept. Hard for everyone because it is a jump into the unknown - you no longer know EXACTLY what to expect. XP, to my mind is the standard which all Microsoft Operating systems get judged against for 'fool proof' reliability. Having been through Vista and 8.1 - 10 comes the closest (in my usage) to the reliability of XP.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •