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  1. #1
    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
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    The Massive Windows 10 Update Failure

    A pcmag writer is getting fed up with MS's forced update policy ( as many people already have ), LOL.
    http://www.pcmag.com/commentary/3484...update-failure

    The recent Microsoft Windows 10 Anniversary Update ruffled more than a few feathers as many users are experiencing a reboot cycle. This was reported during the beta phase and apparently ignored by the company.

    These things are bound to happen when a company takes a cavalier attitude and constantly slipstreams updates. This is unlike the previous era of the neverending patch Tuesday. The difference: these Windows 10 updates are not optional.

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    Super Moderator Rick Corbett's Avatar
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    It's an interesting article, if only to raise the spectre of a forced update in the (very near?) future bricking all Windows 10 devices globally.

    Never happen? Well, the Insider Program was supposed to be the 'in the field' test system designed to prevent these glitches from ever reaching the masses... but this program doesn't appear to have done this too well recently, as so many well-publicized articles attest to.

    I can't think of any other OS company that has introduced a 'forced update' eco-system (especially against the protests of its users)... and I'm sure that other tech organisations are watching the saga unfold with interest (and probably laughter).

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    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
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    bricking all Windows 10 devices globally
    That is a distinct possibility with MS's new policy. Soon W7 will be added to that possibility. In W7's case, I guess the best approach is leaving WU turned off and wait til the reports of problems start rolling in before attempting the "Cumulative" updates.
    As to W10, I have so far avoided the AU with defer upgrades and the metered connection.

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    WS Lounge VIP mrjimphelps's Avatar
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    I have W7, W8.1, and Ubuntu Linux. I have stopped doing automatic updates on all of my Windows devices. I will wait till the end of each month and see how all of the beta testers fared with the current month's security rollup; if they did ok, I will download and install it on my Windows machines.

    On the bright side, I will only have to deal with Windows updates once a month.

    No one is talking about MS Office updates. I'm taking the same approach with MS Office and all other Microsoft products that I will take with Windows -- do a manual update once a month, at the end of the month, if everyone else out there fared ok.

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    WS Lounge VIP mrjimphelps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Corbett View Post
    It's an interesting article, if only to raise the spectre of a forced update in the (very near?) future bricking all Windows 10 devices globally.

    Never happen? Well, the Insider Program was supposed to be the 'in the field' test system designed to prevent these glitches from ever reaching the masses... but this program doesn't appear to have done this too well recently, as so many well-publicized articles attest to.

    I can't think of any other OS company that has introduced a 'forced update' eco-system (especially against the protests of its users)... and I'm sure that other tech organisations are watching the saga unfold with interest (and probably laughter).
    For this reason I have Linux as a dual-boot on my main computer. I figure that if I keep using Linux and learning it, I will be very ready should this bricking occur with me. I don't want to wait till that happens before getting up and running with Linux.

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    Super Moderator Rick Corbett's Avatar
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    I guess this is where I put my hand up and admit that I've reverted from Windows 10 to Windows 7 on my main PC and have automatic updates disabled.

    I've just lost confidence in Microsoft full stop. Time will tell whether this is temporary...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjimphelps View Post
    I have W7, W8.1, and Ubuntu Linux. I have stopped doing automatic updates on all of my Windows devices.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Corbett View Post
    I guess this is where I put my hand up and admit that I've reverted from Windows 10 to Windows 7 on my main PC and have automatic updates disabled.

    I've just lost confidence in Microsoft full stop. Time will tell whether this is temporary...
    Welcome to the club, guys!

    Win7 is still my primary OS, and I turned Windows Update completely off at the end of 2012. As I've mentioned previously, I've been using "WSUS Offline Update" about every 3-6 months since then, with an "Exclude List" to curate which updates I don't let it install. With this strategy, I never experienced all the drama over GWX and never had to resort to registry tweaks or Never10 to stay out of trouble.

    I made sure to bring my "WSUS Offline Update" cache up to date on Sep 30. That way, I will always have the ability to update any future clean install to at least Sep 2016.

    With Microsoft's announced change in their update policy beginning this month, time will tell if I ever install any future updates. But at least I can always bring any installation up to date as of Sep 2016, if I need to in the future.

    FTR, I do have linux Mint and Windows 10 on multiboot partitions (a true multiboot via BootIt Bare Metal, not a pseudo-multiboot via Microsoft's BCD). I've tinkered around with both enough to convince myself that when Win7 is no longer suitable for my needs, linux is on deck to be my next OS, not Win10.

  8. #8
    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
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    W7 is still my primary OS also. I bought a laptop to experiment with W10 and so far, not overly impressed with being a BETA tester. I've never done anything related to Linux but I may have to bite the bullet one of these days as windows slowly fades into the sunset with all the forced policy's and "seeming" disregard for consumer wishes ( at this point anyway, IMHO ). MS has perpetuated a major trust issue with their changes for many ( although most of the "fan boys" love it ).
    But then again who knows, it may turn into the greatest thing since sliced bread.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Rick Corbett's Avatar
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    Do you remember the original 'The Terminator' film when the narrator described the doom-laden future based on the actions of a tech corporation?

    For your reading pleasure, I present this:

    "With Windows 10 it appears that MS has had enough of providing a (once highly-) customisable OS.

    IMHO MS has taken an all-or-nothing leap into the dark with the whole idea of 'forcedness', i.e. forced updates, forced changes to your preferences, forced removal of your preferred programs and forced changes to your preferred program associations. Add to this deliberate obfuscation of 'standard' program filenames and filepaths, deliberate obfuscation of the Windows registry, etc.

    The intended effect is to discourage all use of previously well-known hacks, registry edits and non-MS programs/utilities... so the 'MS Windows user experience' is forced to be the same for everyone, irrespective of knowledge and experience.

    Along the way will be the deliberate move so only programs sourced from the Windows Store will be installable. Any program not installed via the Windows Store will be uninstalled automatically during each regular 'update' in order to 'enhance the user experience' and - later - prohibited from installation. Goodbye 3rd-party antimalware, goodbye Ccleaner... permanently.

    Further on, goodbye 3rd-party hardware drivers.

    You want your inkjet printer to remain working after a minor OS update? Then the printer manufacturer needs to pay MS to ensure its income from the highly profitable ink cartridge refills is allowed.

    You want your scanner to produce an accurate copy? Pay up and it will be allowed.

    How about the output from 3D printers producing artificial limbs at low lost? Pay up and it will be allowed.

    Yes... I said 'allowed'. It's all about the money, folks.

    In this way MS will attempt to create a hybrid (almost) 'walled garden' eco-system that mimics Apple... forgetting completely that a) Apple has always had a completely different business model whereby its (free) Apple OS is tied (substantially) to Apple-mandated hardware and, more importantly, b) Apple allows its users to update both OS upgrades and updates at a time of their choosing, if at all.

    Still science fiction? IMO MS is taking a 'chance of a lifetime' risk... and so far neither the results nor the publicity has been too positive.

    But that's just my opinion...
    Last edited by Rick Corbett; 2016-10-05 at 20:25.

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    Silver Lounger lumpy95's Avatar
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    Not so far fetched Rick, after all W10 is a "service" now.
    Gosh, after starting this thread I have a feeling that when it get's to forced update day, I will just get a pop up window with a graphic of a certain finger with a message of "No updates for you", LOL.

  12. #11
    Super Moderator Rick Corbett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumpy95
    Not so far fetched Rick, after all W10 is a "service" now.
    Gosh, after starting this thread I have a feeling that when it get's to forced update day, I will just get a pop up window with a graphic of a certain finger with a message of "No updates for you", LOL.
    Sorry... but I have no idea.

    I guess I'm just both cynical and paranoid.

    ROFL
    Last edited by Rick Corbett; 2016-10-05 at 20:53.

  13. #12
    WS Lounge VIP mrjimphelps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumpy95 View Post
    W7 is still my primary OS also. I bought a laptop to experiment with W10 and so far, not overly impressed with being a BETA tester. I've never done anything related to Linux but I may have to bite the bullet one of these days as windows slowly fades into the sunset with all the forced policy's and "seeming" disregard for consumer wishes ( at this point anyway, IMHO ). MS has perpetuated a major trust issue with their changes for many ( although most of the "fan boys" love it ).
    But then again who knows, it may turn into the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    I've been impressed so far with Ubuntu Linux. Not only does it feel really stable, but Ubuntu.com makes it easy to get updates and add-ins.

    Go here if you want to check it out. Put it on a second hard drive, and install a SATA hard drive switch to switch between the two OSs. You can put your data on a third drive, so that it is always available, no matter which way you go.

    This arrangement has worked out very well for me. Windows and Linux will never interfere with each other; and my data is always available, no matter which OS I am using.

    Best of all, Linux and all of the related software are free!

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    WS Lounge VIP mrjimphelps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Corbett View Post
    Still science fiction? IMO MS is taking a 'chance of a lifetime' risk... and so far neither the results nor the publicity has been too positive.
    Microsoft is literally betting the farm on this whole new approach, the "farm" being their absolute dominance on desktop and laptop computers. The problem for them is, they have abandoned what got (and kept) them that dominance, that is, doing everything they could to try to ensure that as much as possible worked with the current version of Windows. Because everyone knew that Microsoft gave it their best shot, they were loyal to Microsoft. But now that they have abandoned that effort, there will come a point, sooner or later, where people and companies will begin to abandon Microsoft in large numbers. What they did to other companies on their way to the top will now happen to them.

    What Microsoft fails to realize is, there are viable alternatives to their offerings. People have choices now that they didn't always have. If someone can put together a good Linux offering, with support, software, the whole package, then Linux has a good chance of exploiting this window of opportunity. Perhaps Red Hat?

  16. #14
    Super Moderator Rick Corbett's Avatar
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    An article in a UK newspaper today reports that market share of Windows 10 is actually falling: Windows 10 - Customers are UNINSTALLING next-generation operating system, new data reveals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Corbett View Post
    In this way MS will attempt to create a hybrid (almost) 'walled garden' eco-system that mimics Apple...
    About 6-8 years ago I saw this coming, but it's happening much sooner than I would have predicted. Five years ago I thought it might happen by 2030.

    I anticipated Microsoft would eventually try to compete head to head and follow the Apple model, but that strategy is doomed to failure because Apple's core expertise is primarily as a marketing company, not a phone maker or technology company. Microsoft is lousy at marketing, so it's foolish to think they can beat Apple at its own game. That's why it's so depressing for me to see Microsoft doing this. Apple is a lost cause, but I held out hope for Microsoft doing the right thing.

    In the latter part of last decade, what I found discouraging was the baffling popularity of the iPhone, which represented a paradigm shift in the way corporations seek to gain a superior position in the marketplace. It didn't make sense to me how so many people could be oblivious to Apple's end-game of a completely closed ecosystem.

    I remember thinking at that time how reminiscent it was of the Anglerfish scene in the movie, "Finding Nemo". Dory (the ditzy, memory-challenged Blue Tang fish) was mesmerized and taken in by the shiny lure of the Anglerfish, while Marlin (the humorless, overly practical, stick-in-the-mud Clownfish) recognized the danger and saved them from being eaten.

    Apple users are like Dory. Marlin seems like he'd be a PC user, to me.

    If allowed to flourish, one company could eventually dictate what devices you can have (such as devices that only work with products from the same company), control what apps you are allowed to have (through a curated App Store), what you are allowed to listen to, what you are allowed to look at (not too much skin), and more.

    Eventually we have "Big Brother" from the book, "1984".

    I recall listening to an interview a few years ago with novelist and futurist, Cory Doctorow. He would ask people whether they preferred a future in which the machines were in control of our everyday lives, or one in which humans controlled the machines, even if it meant less convenience. When he mentioned how Apple, Google, Fitbit, Facebook, et al, could make life more convenient by telling use what to eat, when to stand up, when to leave, what to do and when to do it, a lot of people were okay with the machines being in control. When he pointed out that HAL, in the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey", was an example of just that, everyone changed their mind.

    Anyway, just my opinion ... and food for thought. Come back in 13 years (if this forum isn't obsolete by then) and we'll see where we've ended up.

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