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  1. #16
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Thanks, Pete.

    So although HDS compatibility lists Samsung NVMe SSDs as compatible, the M2 versions still need some work from the dev? Could you send him a test report, please? http://www.hdsentinel.com/compatibility_ssd.php

    Have you gone the full manual route and used Trimcheck yet?

  2. #17
    5 Star Lounger petesmst's Avatar
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    @satrow: Yes, trimcheck says trim not enabled, and attempting to set it with fUtil changes nothing. At this point, I am clinging to the belief (misguidedly?) that the SAMSUNG Support desk technician was correct when he said "IF Samsung Magician reports Trim enabled, then it is".

    I will do as you say and report the situation to HDS.

    Cheers.
    (My Setup: Custom built: 4.00GHz Intel Core i7-6700K CPU; MSI Z170A Gaming Carbon Mobo (Military Class V); Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 16GB RAM; 500GB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; 512GB SAMSUNG 850 PRO SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; 2 X GeForceGTX 1070 8GB Graphics Card (SLI); Office 2013 Prof (32-bit); Acronis TI 2017 Premium, Norton Internet Security, VMWare Workstation12 Pro). WD My Book 3 1TB USB External Backup Drive). Samsung 24" Curved HD Monitor.

  3. #18
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    I wouldn't trust Samsung's comments if Trimcheck fails to detect evidence

    I don't see much in the way of details listed on Samsung's support site about changes/bugfixes in their SSD software/firmware/drivers, not a good sign, imo. You've downloaded and installed the latest software, SamsungUpdate_2.2.8.35.ZIP, yes?

    You could also try to contact the Trimcheck author at his Blog: http://blog.thecybershadow.net/2012/...im-check-tool/

  4. #19
    5 Star Lounger petesmst's Avatar
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    @satrow: I confirm I have the latest firmware and drivers installed. I have contacted the author on his blog and am standing by for a response.
    Last edited by petesmst; 2017-04-21 at 07:47.
    (My Setup: Custom built: 4.00GHz Intel Core i7-6700K CPU; MSI Z170A Gaming Carbon Mobo (Military Class V); Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 16GB RAM; 500GB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; 512GB SAMSUNG 850 PRO SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; 2 X GeForceGTX 1070 8GB Graphics Card (SLI); Office 2013 Prof (32-bit); Acronis TI 2017 Premium, Norton Internet Security, VMWare Workstation12 Pro). WD My Book 3 1TB USB External Backup Drive). Samsung 24" Curved HD Monitor.

  5. #20
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    fsutil behavior set DisableDeleteNotify 0 is a System setting, it cannot/does not take into account the effect that a 'bad' controller/driver might have: http://www.hdsentinel.com/faq.php#trim

  6. #21
    5 Star Lounger petesmst's Avatar
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    @RetiredGeek.

    The Trimcheck guide states: The command "fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify" will give you one of two results, either a 0 or a 1. A zero indicates that TRIM is enabled correctly, a one means that it is not.

    I think I am having a bad day and am therefore now thoroughly confused: Running "fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify" on my system SSD results in "0", but the next line in the Command Prompt windows states "DisableDeleteNotify is not currently set". (See screenshot)Screen Shot 04-21-17 at 02.49 PM.JPG

    Running the command "fsutil behavior set DisableDeleteNotify 0" to set trim changes absolutely nothing.

    I am now totally confused. Is trim WORKING or not?
    (My Setup: Custom built: 4.00GHz Intel Core i7-6700K CPU; MSI Z170A Gaming Carbon Mobo (Military Class V); Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 16GB RAM; 500GB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; 512GB SAMSUNG 850 PRO SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; 2 X GeForceGTX 1070 8GB Graphics Card (SLI); Office 2013 Prof (32-bit); Acronis TI 2017 Premium, Norton Internet Security, VMWare Workstation12 Pro). WD My Book 3 1TB USB External Backup Drive). Samsung 24" Curved HD Monitor.

  7. #22
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Try removing any Samsung startups using MSConfig or Autoruns, rebooting and then testing it again.

  8. #23
    5 Star Lounger petesmst's Avatar
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    @satrow:
    @RetiredGeek:

    OK, I think I now understand this issue. In the image in post #21 above, note the line that commences with "ReSF ..."

    I found this on a Norton site:

    "NTFS is the current default file system for Windows 10. ReFS is a new file system which came out in 2012 but is not normally used for consumer PC's."

    So, it seems that the line in the post #21 image above commencing with "NTFS ..." refers to my NTFS system disk (the SSD in question), and it indicates that Trim is "0", in other words Trim is SET (but is it working: This requires "Trimcheck" to be run).

    The ReSF line is not applicable to my system.

    Problem solved! (As regards whether or not Trim is ENABLED, it seems).

    Of course, this does not explain why Trimcheck tells me Trim is NOT working (even after I use "fsutil ...SET") , whilst Samsung Magician says it is! (Perhaps Magician also only sets/checks ENABLED as apposed to actually working?)
    Last edited by petesmst; 2017-04-21 at 09:48. Reason: Corrected a few typos
    (My Setup: Custom built: 4.00GHz Intel Core i7-6700K CPU; MSI Z170A Gaming Carbon Mobo (Military Class V); Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 16GB RAM; 500GB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; 512GB SAMSUNG 850 PRO SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; 2 X GeForceGTX 1070 8GB Graphics Card (SLI); Office 2013 Prof (32-bit); Acronis TI 2017 Premium, Norton Internet Security, VMWare Workstation12 Pro). WD My Book 3 1TB USB External Backup Drive). Samsung 24" Curved HD Monitor.

  9. #24
    5 Star Lounger petesmst's Avatar
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    This whole TRIM, DEFRAG and OPTIMIZE question is pretty complicated. I found this (It's from 2014, but I am pretty sure it still applies, unless someone can provide evidence that things have changed):

    "Defrag will only run on your SSD if volsnap is turned on, and volsnap is turned on by System Restore as one needs the other"

    Source: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/TheRea...ntYourSSD.aspx

    Another important extract from the above link is this:

    "In the old days, you would sometimes be told by power users to run this at the command line to see if TRIM was enabled for your SSD: "fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify". A zero result indicates it is.

    However, this stuff is handled by Windows today in 2014, and you can trust that it's "doing the right thing." Windows 7, along with 8 and 8.1 come with appropriate and intelligent defaults and you don't need to change them for optimal disk performance. This is also true with Server SKUs like Windows Server 2008R2 and later."


    So, it appears that we must manually optimize ("trim and defrag"), or set optimise to run on a schedule for an SSD if System Restore is not turned on.

    This is a paradox, since many posts here and elsewhere suggest that Restore is not needed if you regularly make complete system image backups to a separate (preferably removable external drive). Therefore, I deduce that if Trim is enabled, but System Restore is turned off, Trim will not actually be working. Please correct me if I am wrong here, as I do not wish to mislead any Loungers.
    Last edited by petesmst; 2017-04-21 at 10:20. Reason: Corretced typos
    (My Setup: Custom built: 4.00GHz Intel Core i7-6700K CPU; MSI Z170A Gaming Carbon Mobo (Military Class V); Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 16GB RAM; 500GB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; 512GB SAMSUNG 850 PRO SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; 2 X GeForceGTX 1070 8GB Graphics Card (SLI); Office 2013 Prof (32-bit); Acronis TI 2017 Premium, Norton Internet Security, VMWare Workstation12 Pro). WD My Book 3 1TB USB External Backup Drive). Samsung 24" Curved HD Monitor.

  10. #25
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petesmst View Post
    ... this does not explain why Trimcheck tells me Trim is NOT working (even after I use "fsutil ...SET") , whilst Samsung Magician says it is! (Perhaps Magician also only sets/checks ENABLED as apposed to actually working?)
    That's also my concern, after all a huge proportion of SSD articles completely rely on fsutil behavior set DisableDeleteNotify 0 as being definitive; I've owned 2 machines (Nvidia chipset/W7 and Intel chipset/W7+W10) where this was definitely not the case, manual intervention by way of reverting to stock MS SATA drivers was needed to allow Trim to function.

    Parts of the Hanselmann topic are now outdated, eg: update/upgrade your W10 to a more recent version and by the second bootup it's likely to have 'updated' drivers, it did to me with AU and the MS SATA drivers - to Intel drivers that didn't support Trim.

  11. #26
    5 Star Lounger petesmst's Avatar
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    @satrow: Thanks. I am still wondering if the requirement for System Restore to be turned on still applies with Windows 10?
    (My Setup: Custom built: 4.00GHz Intel Core i7-6700K CPU; MSI Z170A Gaming Carbon Mobo (Military Class V); Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 16GB RAM; 500GB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; 512GB SAMSUNG 850 PRO SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; 2 X GeForceGTX 1070 8GB Graphics Card (SLI); Office 2013 Prof (32-bit); Acronis TI 2017 Premium, Norton Internet Security, VMWare Workstation12 Pro). WD My Book 3 1TB USB External Backup Drive). Samsung 24" Curved HD Monitor.

  12. #27
    Silver Lounger wavy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petesmst View Post
    @RetiredGeek.

    I think I am having a bad day and am therefore now thoroughly confused: Running "fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify" on my system SSD results in "0", but the next line in the Command Prompt windows states "DisableDeleteNotify is not currently set". (See screenshot)Screen Shot 04-21-17 at 02.49 PM.JPG
    In logic and binary circuit lingo it is common to see a "1" indicate the "set" or "true" condition and a "0" indicate the opposite; so a zero indicates NOT SET i.e. DeleteNotify is NOT Disabled.
    Running the command "fsutil behavior set DisableDeleteNotify 0" to set trim changes absolutely nothing.

    I am now totally confused. Is trim WORKING or not?
    As for that I would likely go with NO. But it is ENABLED in the OS but while that may be a necessary condition for a WORKING Trim it is NOT sufficient. Trust the Trimtest, it is designed to resolve that question.
    Last edited by wavy; 2017-04-21 at 16:32.
    David

    Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

  13. #28
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petesmst View Post
    @satrow: Thanks. I am still wondering if the requirement for System Restore to be turned on still applies with Windows 10?
    I'm not sure anyone outside the MS dev. team for that subsystem knows for sure, Pete.

  14. #29
    5 Star Lounger petesmst's Avatar
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    @wavy: Noted, thanks!
    (My Setup: Custom built: 4.00GHz Intel Core i7-6700K CPU; MSI Z170A Gaming Carbon Mobo (Military Class V); Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 16GB RAM; 500GB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; 512GB SAMSUNG 850 PRO SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; 2 X GeForceGTX 1070 8GB Graphics Card (SLI); Office 2013 Prof (32-bit); Acronis TI 2017 Premium, Norton Internet Security, VMWare Workstation12 Pro). WD My Book 3 1TB USB External Backup Drive). Samsung 24" Curved HD Monitor.

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