Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16
  1. #1
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Hollywood (sorta), California, USA
    Posts
    2,759
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    ...in this situation:

    User A has read only access to a template1. User A creates a document based on template1 and has it open in Word.

    User B has read/write access to template1, opens it and changes, say, an autotext entry. User B saves the template.

    What happens to User A's document?


    cross posted to VBA
    Kevin <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Kevin_sig.gif alt="Keep the change, ya filthy animal...">
    <img src=/w3timages/blackline.gif width=33% height=2><img src=/w3timages/redline.gif width=33% height=2><img src=/w3timages/blackline.gif width=33% height=2>

  2. #2
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    2,970
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 29 Times in 27 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    Hi Kevin,

    Just guessing:

    As long as User A keeps the document open, the new autotext added by User B will not appear as available (User A's document is linked to a copy of the template, rather than the template itself - the copy was created before User B updated the template).
    As soon as User A closes and reopens the document, the new autotext added by User B should appear as available.

    No?

    Gary

  3. #3
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Hollywood (sorta), California, USA
    Posts
    2,759
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    Hey, that was not a test question. I really don't know.

    This "copy" of the template to which User A's document is linked -- where is it? Keep in mind User A has read only access to Template1's folder too.
    Kevin <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Kevin_sig.gif alt="Keep the change, ya filthy animal...">
    <img src=/w3timages/blackline.gif width=33% height=2><img src=/w3timages/redline.gif width=33% height=2><img src=/w3timages/blackline.gif width=33% height=2>

  4. #4
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    2,970
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 29 Times in 27 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    Rather than guess, I've just tried to reproduce the situation you've posed (although just as a single user):

    I've got a template which is set to Read-Only.
    I create a new document based on it, and have that document open.
    I go to Windows Explorer, locate the template, right-click, and take off the tickmark next to "Read-Only".
    I then open the template and add an autotext.
    I then go to save the template - but it does not save - rather it gives me a SaveAs dialog (which I would expect if the template were still set to Read only).
    So I go back and double-check in Windows Explorer, and yes the checkmark is still off next to "Read-Only".

    So it appears (at least here) that as long as a document based on the template is open, the template is locked for edit. No temp file appears in Explorer, but Word has some internal flag which locks the template.

    In your scenario, what happens when User B goes to Save the change made to the template? - does Word allow the save or do they get a SaveAs dialog?

    Gary

  5. #5
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Silicon Valley, USA
    Posts
    23,112
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 93 Times in 89 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    I think Kevin is referring to privileges assigned through the server OS rather than making the file read-only; possibly the first user's inability to write prevents him from locking the file?

    I have encountered the situation that I create a new document based on one of our workgroup templates, and I get a dialog indicating that someone else has it open and do I want to make a copy (or something like that, even though I am using File, New). The twist is that my workgroup templates are .DOC files; Word might handle templates differently.

  6. #6
    Silver Lounger Charles Kenyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Sun Prairie, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,049
    Thanks
    124
    Thanked 119 Times in 116 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    Also just guessing as not on network right now...

    Once a document is created, changes to template styles, formatting and text do not automatically propogate to the template.

    Macros and autotext changes will be available next time the user opens the document. My guess is that the template resides in memory while the document is open.
    Charles Kyle Kenyon
    Madison, Wisconsin

  7. #7
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles Area, California, USA
    Posts
    7,453
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    Hi Kevin:
    I'm not on a network, but if I:
    1. Open a document based on a template.
    2. Open the template & add an autotext.

    That open document immediately has access to that new autotext, even though the template hasn't been saved. While I'm guessing at this (isn't it funny--you ask a question & everyone guesses?), it makes sense to me. If you change an attached template while a document is open, changes to autotext, macros, shortcut keys, & toolbars are immediately available to that document. In fact, you can make & save some of those changes without even opening the template--do it right through the document. The only thing that isn't available are styles, since a document's styles are fixed upon creation of the document (except for copying new styles or modifying them). If you find out different, post back & I'll see if I can find anything on the KB.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    2,970
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 29 Times in 27 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    Hi Phil,

    The difference between your test and the scenario Kevin describes is that in your case, you opened a document, and you also have write access to the template the document is based on.

    In the scenario Kevin described, the user who creates a new document doesn't have write access to the template; meanwhile a different user who does have write access goes in and makes changes to the template - does the first user see those changes reflected in his document? (for example, if the second user adds an autotext, does that instantly become available to the first user?)

    Somone's going to have to test this on a network to find out....

    Gary

  9. #9
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    2,970
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 29 Times in 27 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    I knew Kevin was describing a network situation, but not having access to a network at the moment, was trying the next best thing. <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

    The situation you describe sounds something like what happens if you have an extra Word session floating around.

    I've seen .doc files used as templates, but don't really understand the repercussions - for one thing, because the "pseudo-.dot" .doc files are themselves based on a .dot (even if it's just Normal.dot), where do you make any necessary changes to the faux .dots? - in the faux .dots or in the real .dots they are based on? - sounds confusing. Is there a benefit that doing this confers?

    Gary

  10. #10
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Hollywood (sorta), California, USA
    Posts
    2,759
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    Gary, Phil, Jeff, Charles,

    Thanks for your valued feedback. The LAN testing falls to me then...

    User A creates a new document based on a template (or opens an existing document based on the template) that is in a read only folder. The file permissions are also set for to read only for User A. In this situation, the file attributes are set to Normal.

    User B (who is the Document Admin and has full permissions to the folder and file) can open the template, but Word adds (Read Only) to the title bar. In other words, the admin can only save a copy of any changes; she cannot overwrite the original while any document based on that template is open.

    Incidentally, if the template has its read only attribute set, User B will get the same results: Word opens the template, but in read only mode.

    My reason for asking the question was to determine what I need to account for in my FileOpen sub. Obviously, I have to set the file attributes to Normal if the admin is to have any chance of changing the template. Now I know that she has no chance of changing it if any document based on the template is open by any user.

    I have determined that I need to code a msgbox that tells the admin the template cannot be modified if it is "in use". In other words, come back later or save your changes to a copy.
    Kevin <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Kevin_sig.gif alt="Keep the change, ya filthy animal...">
    <img src=/w3timages/blackline.gif width=33% height=2><img src=/w3timages/redline.gif width=33% height=2><img src=/w3timages/blackline.gif width=33% height=2>

  11. #11
    2 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    185
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    Okay. I tested this on a network.

    I created a template (MyTemplate) as User1 on a network share (nwShare) where User1 has full control. I closed the template.

    User2 has Read permissions to the share and the underlying folder.

    I opened a document based on MyTemplate as User2 and kept the document open (without saving).

    I went back as User1 and attempted to open the template. It opened as Read-Only--which would mean, any changes I make to the template will be irrelevant to User2's document, as I won't be able to save them with the template.

    This jives with my experience; I manage the templates in a law firm, and we have shared templates on a network share. Domain Users have Read Access (no write) to that share. I have Full Control. However, I cannot make changes to any of those network templates while anyone in the firm is attached to the template I want to change. I have to lock down the share completely and kick all of my users off before making my changes (not particularly feasible during office hours, although I often do that late at night or on weekends).

    This behaviour was the same in NT/Office97 as it is in our current setup (Win2K Pro/Office2k).

    Another option we've explored? Having a central "master" copy of workgroup templates on the network, but actually mapping all users to a local directory on their machines and "pushing" the templates up and down, either each day or on an as-needed (when changes have been made) basis. The plus of this setup? I can make changes to my network copies without affecting any currently-logged-in users. The down side? (1) it is impractical to push those down every day because of the impact on login time, so I have to change the login scripts whenever I make changes. (2) because of 1, users don't see changes right away.

    In the end, I prefer to have Workgroup templates pointing to a network share (VERY VERY important that users don't have write access to this directory), and kicking them off when I need to make changes. It has been easier to manage.

    Just my thoughts...

    Jennifer

  12. #12
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Hollywood (sorta), California, USA
    Posts
    2,759
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    Phil,

    See my post under Gary's last post. I discovered that in the LAN environment, a template simply cannot be modified if any user has a document open based on the template.
    Kevin <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Kevin_sig.gif alt="Keep the change, ya filthy animal...">
    <img src=/w3timages/blackline.gif width=33% height=2><img src=/w3timages/redline.gif width=33% height=2><img src=/w3timages/blackline.gif width=33% height=2>

  13. #13
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Silicon Valley, USA
    Posts
    23,112
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 93 Times in 89 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    Using .DOC files as "templates" wasn't a carefully considered decision. I had a folder of approved sample documents, and by making that the Workgroup Templates folder, my work was done. (Most importantly, no one opens and overwrites the original.) Because documents can now contain code and other customizations, the lines are getting pretty blurred, but documents based on the faux templates know their template to be Normal.dot. That much we know is different.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    2,970
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 29 Times in 27 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    So if you've got code and customizations in the faux.dot .doc, does a new .doc created based on that doc also contain the code and customizations?

    What happens if you later need to make changes to the code and customizations? When made to a true .dot, the changes automatically flow to all docs based on that .dot. It seems that with .docs based on .docs, there's no direct way to update them(?)

  15. #15
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Silicon Valley, USA
    Posts
    23,112
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 93 Times in 89 Posts

    Re: What Happens... (Word 97SR2)

    Right now, I can't make time to experiment, but at some point I probably will. These particular documents do not have customizations.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •