Time/Clock

[P O'Rourke]

<big><font color=d2691e><font face="Comic Sans MS">The clock in my pc has been losing time over the last couple of months. For example this morning the time was off by .34 minutes (I reset the clock when I remember). I am assuming this means the battery needs replacing? [img]/w3timages/icons/butterfly.gif[/img]Although I did get my pc hardware specialists certificate, it has been several years since I was brave [or foolhardy?] enough to do my own upgrades/repairs, so I don't want to screw up. I've got butterflies ... and they are NOT flying in formation ... [img]/w3timages/icons/butterfly.gif[/img]Any advice re how to proceed to - or should I take it to the shop? </font color=d2691e></font face=comic>[img]/w3timages/icons/butterfly.gif[/img]</big>

[Leif]

Do you shut down your pc at night?
Does it keep good time when the pc is powered on?

[P O'Rourke]

<font face="Georgia"><font color=448800>Thanks for answering, Lief. No, I don't power down at night (unless I know the power is going to be shut down for seeming endless electrical repairs in my condo). I often leave it on for several days. More often, though, I will power down in the a.m. before going to work.
This morning I reset the clock around 9 am. Currently the pc time indicates 5:16 pm Central Ontario Time - but it is really 5:40 p.m. So on average I guess it loses 25 min-1/2 hr per day. </font face=georgia></font color=448800>

[Kel]

It's been my experience that a bad batter will cause more serious problems, like loss of hardware info in the bios, and things like that..

I have seen w98 machines lose time if they're over-run or taxing resources. Leaving your system on at all times can't be helping... (not only as far as your time is concerned, but you've got moving parts in that box, which wear out more quickly with your pc running 24/7..) If your memory is ample, and you're not 'taxing' your system resources, I suppose a bad battery 'may' be the culprit..

that's my 2cents!

Drk.

[P O'Rourke]

<font face="Georgia"><font color=448800>Thanks! That makes very good sense. I'll be shutting down a lot more often now. BTW I do have Win98 (SE2)and I often wish I stayed with 95. It may be coincidental but I've had a lot of grief since I had Win98 installed. </font face=georgia><font color=448800>

[Leif]

I'm afraid I fall in the other camp. Unless a pc is not going to be used for more than 3 or 4 days, it stays on.
Statistically, if a hard drive is going to fail, it fails on start-up. I'll see if I can find some more info on this theory and post it if I do.
Anyone else got a view on this?
***
So, if your pc is running most of the time and losing time, I would suspect a degradation in the Real Time Clock crystal. (AFAIK the battery only comes into play when power is off.) It could just be a bad crystal, or they can be affected by temperature, but the latter cause would require quite a deviation from the norm.
All I would suggest is using some timekeeping software - see Tardis in the Software forum.

[LegareColeman]

The stress created by power on and constantly heating up and cooling down usually does more harm to a system that leaving it running 24/7. I run all of my systems 24/7 and have never worn out a "moving part." I usually reboot once a week to clean up resource leaks and such, but don't power off, just reboot.

[LegareColeman]

A bad battery would not cause the clock to lose time when the system is powered on. The battery only powers the clock when the power is turned off, and on some systems only when the power is disconnected from the system. Therefore, if your system is losing time when it is powered on, the clock is not the problem.

If you reboot the system when the clock appears to have lost time, does the time reset to the correct value. If so, then the hardware clock is keeping the correct time, and it is the operating system clock that is the problem. This is almost certainly caused by some software running in the system preventing the operating system from processing clock interrupts. Finding out what is doing it will be difficult.

If a reboot does not reset the correct time, then it is the hardware clock that is the problem. This could be a hardware problem with the clock, or some software that is storing an incorrect value into the clock.

One possible candidate for this problem is Norton Anti-Virus (if I remember correctly NAV 2000). It was causing time loss in the hardware clock, but in my case it was causing the clock to lose exactly one hour and usually only ablut once a week. Norton produced a number of fixes for this problem, but the fixes only seemed to work on some machines and not on others. The finally produced a patch that they thought fixed it on all machines. If you are using NAV 2000, you might want to make sure it is up to date, and even if it is check with Symantec.

[Leif]

Legare - I had forgotton all about that virus aspect.
Here's the link to Q189706 which covers the MS view on it.
***
Nice to hear someone else agrees on the 24/7 - and a weekly shutdown to run CHKDSK (NT/W2K) goes without saying...

[ileacy]

From an electrical/mechanical engineering perspective. The hardest thing on a system is powering its components on and off. Steady state is best.

I have found one reason however to occasionally/frequently reboot my system. Memory leaks and other application garbage. I continuously monitor free memory and resources in my system tray, and, when I find my "normal" state is getting low, I Shutdown/Restart.

If I have problems with a device, and Restarting does not fix it, then, I will do a full Shutdown/Power Off. Sometimes things get latched in a nasty state and the only way to fix them is to electrically reset them.

As far as power consumption goes, I have power management options set, particularly for my monitor (which is green).

[Kel]

[img]/w3timages/icons/nope.gif[/img] Your power supply has a fan, and so does your processor, even your case *may* have a fan. These fans contain bearings, which can, And DO, wear out.

Working in the I.T. Field, i've seen systems of all types succomb to fan-related failures. Arguably, your fans are the most critical equipment in your system, they keep everything nice and cool, and when they fail, your processor is next to be [img]/w3timages/icons/aflame.gif[/img]. Not only this, but you're not monitoring your puter in the wee hours of the night, there's fire hazard, etc, leaving it on. Personally, I'm not going to risk my investment by leaving it on 24/7(not only that of my computer, but that of my home) With the advent of 24/7 broadband, dispite protections, I especially wouldn't do it.

That's my [img]/w3timages/icons/2cents.gif[/img] take it or leave it! [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Drk.

[Brian Swann]

Sorry Drk: Gotta disagree. Since the first main frames, computers have been and still are designed to run just fine 24/7. Ian brings up very valid points. Rapid temperature changes at power up will cause failures in solder connections, traces etc. I wouldn't shut down my system ever if it wasn't for Windohs et al refusing to release resources. As for fire hazards, you might want to consider unplugging that refrigerator, air conditioner, electric clock ...... [img]/w3timages/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Kel]

Alas, I stand somewhat corrected, It all chalks down to geographical location, and personal preference, i've started a new thread on the matter here to get everyone's take, and present some resources to those who are less sure.

Hope it helps!

Drk.

[LegareColeman]

A new fan costs about $2.00. A new Mother Board costs $100+. I think I would rather risk the fan than the Mother Board.

As for the fire hazard, do you shut off the electricity to everything in your house (including the heat and air conditioning) every time you go to sleep or drive to the store to shop?

[Kel]

Mr. Legare, when your fan goes out, your motherboard is soon to follow... [img]/w3timages/icons/doh.gif[/img]

I had an incident where the proc fan went out, the motherboard got so hot you couldn't touch the case with your bare hands. The user was complaining about a 'white' screen and a smell like an iron left on... [img]/w3timages/icons/aflame.gif[/img] needless to say, the system was toast.