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  1. #1
    eaman
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    Fonts in Word docs

    For some reason I can't figure this one out. A user of mine has received a document with Helvetica font text in it, and wants Helvetica as a font on her PC. With this document open, she's able to use Helvetica only when using that particular style. Copy the style to her normal.dot via Organizer, and she's got it only when using that style. Doesn't show up in her font drop-down list as a permanently available font. Why not? Is there any way I can get this font copied over without reinstalling fonts via Windows disk making this the default font in the normal.dot?

    Thanks!

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    I'd suggest that she doesn't really have this font installed.

    If the font was installed on the other user's machine, and used in the definition of the style, when the document is used on another machine without that font, Word will try to approximate to the next equivalent. It will tell you it's Helvetica, but it will in actual fact be something else.

    We had problems that way with Helvetica- it seems it's perhaps a common but not universal problem.

    One of our upper management people decreed Helvetica be a default on all documents- but even he backed down when told that it was only available on a few machines, and the LAN people were too overworked to do the necessary installations.
    Subway Belconnen- home of the Signboard to make you smile. Get (almost) daily updates- follow SubwayBelconnen on Twitter.

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    The document may have been saved with the font (Tools/Options/Save/Embed True Type Fonts.) In that case you cannot extract the font from the document. In any case you may not have a licence to use it. While in the document you are actually using Helvetica but that is it. To install it you have to obtain the font from a font library.

    Someone will know where to get Helvetica.
    David Grugeon
    Brisbane Australia

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    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
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    Helvetica

    One of my feisty former secretaries told me that she would never use Helvetica in a document because it was the official typeface of the Internal Revenue Service. Of course, we didn't tell her Arial was Apple and Microsoft's clone of Helvetica...

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    last week's posts on enumerating/locating all fonts in use is on my back burner. This posting seems to indicate that I might LOCATE the use of Helvetica in a document when it's not really there.


    Would it be fair to say that 'Word has created a font which Word has named helvetica which is really a clone of {other font}'?

    If so, then I'd be wanting, perhaps, to distinguish between real fonts (that exists on the user's machine) and surrogate fonts. That is, a document that has ostensibly 40 fonts might be dependant on only 5 real fonts.

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    Chris

    Word has not created the font. It just remembers what font the text had applied to it when it was created (and displays this name for the font). On screen and in print, the text will appear in an installed font which is mapped according to the font substitutions list. Helvetica probably maps to Arial (which just about every WinPC has) on a PC and the two are distinguishable only by Fontophiles.

    If you want a macro to do a "fonts in use" count on the file then you would probably receive an answer that included the "unavailable but used" fonts.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    >and displays this name for the font

    So you and I would nod wisely and say "Helvetica", but the fontophile would scream "No, no! It's ARIAL you fools", right?

    That is, when I ask Word "What Font is that", Word is going to remember what the earlier user had requested/applied, and give that answer ("This is what you want to hear"), but reality is actually a different (but similar looking) font.

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    Just an observation but anytime I have seen Helvetica or CGTimes in a document they have always associated with a Printer Font. Office applications can show fonts that are Printer Resident and may not be, and in most cases are not, installed on the users PC as True Type fonts. For screen display I think Windows uses the font substitution table or whatever and replaces say Helvetica with Arial or maybe even MS Sans.

    You may notice in your font selection dialog a Printer symbol beside the font instead of the overlapping TTs which represent True Type fonts.

    If your document is going to be distributed you are better to stick with True Type. You cannot embed a font that is not actually on your system. I have distributed a document in which I used CGTimes (a Printer font) and even though the document looked fine on screen, when others tried to print it the page breaks etc were all in the wrong place as Times New Roman was substituted even though Word reported CGTimes as the font in use. So whilst it may try to find a match for the printer font it will be by no means perfect. Its all down to font metrics. It can be especially ugly if script fonts are involved.

    Hope this sheds some light

    Andrew C

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    You can find out if all the Fonts used in the document are actually installed, or whether substitute fonts which often are close approximations, are being used to display the text, in the following manner in Word 2000.

    Open the document, and go to Tools-Options-Compatibility and click on the Font Substitution Button.

    Helvetica is a Type 1 Font and is usually displayed in Arial which is a close True-type equivalent.

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    <img src=/S/sarcasm.gif border=0 width=15 height=15>So has anyone had any reasonable results with "Embed True Type Fonts". We use a true type font Peignot in our company logo. Not a common font and when printed out on other machines that don't have this font installed, it looks Ugly - terrible font substitution with odd kerning! I haven't had any success using the Save Option: Embed True Type fonts.

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    I have used font embedding but only where the document was for viewing and/or printing. Not all fonts can be embedded and of those that can be, most cannot be edited once embedded. It's down to the supplier of the font as to what licensing is applied to the font, and some cannot be embedded and others can be embedded for viewing only.

    I know that does not help you with your particular font problem, but there are many clones of Peignot available and one of those might work for you.

    Andrew C

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    Thank you Andrew - can anyone tell me where I can find a Peignot font (or clone) that can be embedded in a doc for printing from another pc that does not have the font?

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    Karen,

    I've had this problem when my daughter has done a beautiful Word-Art font in her assignment, and has to take it to school on a floppy- the school does not have that lovely font.

    What I've done- and which you might be able to do- is to make a picture, and then embed that.

    I zoom the page in, with the fancy font or Wordart, so that the result is fairly large and complete on the page (if it's too large, the resulting image might be too big). I press "Print screen", then open up my picture editor (Paint Shop Pro), and paste in the image. I cut out the bit I want, then paste that bit into the new image. I then can save the image as a gif.

    I might have to repeat several times to get something the right size for what I want. If there's not many colours, I'll also cut down the size by reducing the number of colours.

    For a very small example of this, just look at my sig, which is just a little Word Art.
    Subway Belconnen- home of the Signboard to make you smile. Get (almost) daily updates- follow SubwayBelconnen on Twitter.

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    If it is as simple as a logo. Open the logo in a real drawing package eg. Corel, Freehand, Illustrator etc. and convert the text to curves. This removes the ability to edit the text as text but you can edit the objects as curves. The need for the font is also removed.

    Logos are perfect for this sort of thing because you only do it once and never need to edit the text again. The logo was most likely created in a genuine design package anyway.

    Geoff's method makes a bitmap which is very size dependent but less troublesome if you have blended colours.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: Fonts in Word docs

    Andrew,

    I thought it was a holday down your way- what are you doing at work?

    >Geoff's method makes a bitmap

    Not quite. It produces a gif- that's why I mentioned saving as a gif. That can be immensely smaller than a bitmap. I suspect that you might have had to install gif filters when you installed Word- but I haven't had trouble with that in the W97 & W2K installations I've used myself.

    The gifs we use as logos vary from 7K to 20K.
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