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    Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    I recently tried to use Word's numbered paragraph feature in real work for the first time. The results were bizarre, and I had to go back to numbering paragraphs manually. I hope someone can clarify what Word was doing and how to make it do what I wanted.

    Problems occurred when I tried to start a new numbered list at #1. The Format/Bullets and Numbering dialog box has a "Restart numbering" radio button for this purpose, so it should have been straightforward. It wasn't.

    I had a "Numbered" style whose properties included paragraph numbering. For convenience, I created an additional "First Numbered" style which was based on "Numbered" but had "Restart numbering" selected.

    I found that "First Numbered" didn't work. When I selected it, I still got a continuation of the previous numbering. I still had to open the Bullets and Numbering dialog box and click Restart Numbering at the start of each list.

    After this happened a few times, I stopped trying to use my "First Numbered" style. I set the first paragraph's style to "Numbered," then restarted numbering manually. Soon I noticed that when I restarted numbering manually, Word changed the style from "Numbered" to "First Numbered"! I have no idea how it did that! It seemed like a mind reading trick, applied with notable perversity.

    Then I hit cases where I couldn't restart numbering manually because the dialog box's Restart Numbering / Continue Previous List radio buttons were disabled. At that point I gave up and went back to numbering the paragraphs by typing in numbers.

    It appears either that the numbered paragraph feature still has serious bugs, or its logic is too Byzantine to for an experienced Word user to figure out in several hours of struggle.

    Can anyone explain what Word did to me, and how to make numbered paragraphs work?

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    I just came across a newsgroup post by Margaret Aldis that's worth reading, too.

    Gary Frieder posted a nice, simple method to "insure" yourself against broken list templates here.

    One problem with your original approach was that "Restart numbering" can only be part of a style in outline numbered lists (restart each time a List style with a lower List Level is encountered).

    Manually applied restarts in Word2000 always will break your numbering when you copy/paste from one document into another. Some say that this bug has been fixed in Word2002, but as long as you plan to exchange documents with other users, I wouldn't rely on it. Restarts that are applied automatically in an outline numbered lists (such as in the "dummy restart" method of Margaret Aldis, Dave Rado et al) are fine.

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16>Klaus

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    Thanks to both for your suggestions.

    I've finished work on the document that was giving me problems, and I won't have a chance to experiment with this again until I need to do a major revision (probably a matter of weeks). Meanwhile, I'm puzzled by both of your explanations because they only seem to apply to sub-entries in an outline list. I'm not trying to do anything so sophisticated. My lists are either simple lists or one-level outline lists, which I assume (perhaps naively) would work the same way. The problems start when I try to create the second list in the document and find that it insists on picking up the numbering where the first list stopped.

    Also, Klaus, your link to Gary Frieder's post is broken. Could you post it in plain text, please?

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    Sorry about the broken link to Gary's post.

    Manual restarts are buggy in Word2000. And for automatic restarts, you need an outline numbered list with at least two levels. If you only need a simple list with restarts, you still need to link the list style to the second level of a list template, and make it restart on some other style that is linked to the first level (some heading, or body text, or a "dummy restart" style: it doesn't matter, and it would not be numbered).

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16>Klaus

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    The solution is quite simple...

    Attached are the steps to creating an outline numbering system and "linking" a specific style and setting your numbering to the highest level ONLY. I wrote these steps for another user here that had a similar problem in Word 97. The steps are the same in 2000. If you do it as instructed on the attached...you will then be able to restart your numbering any place you desire.

    As a side note, we have created at macro and added it to our toolbars to restart numbering. I got the code from the VB section of the lounge and tweaked it a bit, but here it is:
    Sub RestartNumbering()
    '
    ' RestartNumbering Macro
    ' Macro recorded 8/9/2002 by YOUR NAME HERE
    '
    Dim mylist As ListFormat
    Set mylist = Selection.Range.ListFormat

    mylist.ApplyListTemplate ListTemplate:=mylist.ListTemplate, continuepreviouslist:=False


    End Sub
    ***Of course put your name in the code to get credit!****
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    Then there's no way to create two separate numbered lists in a document without resorting to tricks? That is seriously bizarre!

    If I use the Normal style to trigger a restart it will work *most* of the time. But I can imagine situations where that would break down; for example, if I had two numbered lists under items in the same bulleted list.

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    That is correct. We attempted to do what you are trying at one time and almost lost all our hair from pulling at it. The solution for us was the outline numbering and the restart numbering button macro for our professional staff to use.

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    You have an awesome macro recorder. <img src=/S/clapping.gif border=0 alt=clapping width=19 height=23>

    Mine won't put so much effort into declaring variables. I must track down a new recorder <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16>
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    Trick is to get the macro recorder to record 'option explicit'. Once you get over that hurdle, it should be able to figure the rest out for itself. So, maybe what you need is a macro to drive the macro recorder and to extract and define the variables for you as you go ....
    Cheers,

    Paul Edstein
    [MS MVP - Word]

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    The really important part of your directions to set up the styles, as you said yourself, is to never, ever edit the list template except by going through the list level 1 style.

    If you look at Phil's post above, you'll see that Dave Rado's instructions cover much the same ground.

    As for the "Restart numbering" macro, you should be aware that it applies the restarts as manual formatting to the paragraph.
    Each time you use the "Restart" macro, a new restart with a unique ID will be generated.

    Since the restarts are manual formatting, they will get lost if you reapply the style (or hit Ctrl+Q).
    They will travel with the paragraph if you copy/paste it someplace else.
    Since the restarts are invisible, this will lead to problems if you edit your documents a lot.

    Imagine you copy/paste a paragraph with a restart a few times, then all those paragraphs will contain the same restart (with the same ID). Only the first of those restarts will actually work; but if you delete that first restart, the next one further down will suddenly become active. So deleting a paragraph may suddenly mess up the numbering in another chapter.

    Another problem I already mentioned is that the manual restarts will get messed up if you copy/paste into another document.
    Let's say you have a long document, and have applied restarts to different paragraphs. Each time you used the "Restart" macro, a different restart will have been created (with a new unique ID number).
    In Word97 and Word2000, when you copy/paste a list with a few restarts into another document, Word will use the same restart ID for all restarts.
    All restarts except the first will get lost. And as above, if you delete that first restart, suddenly the next restart further down will become active.

    So all in all I would not use manual restarts.

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16>Klaus

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    > If I use the Normal style to trigger a restart it will work *most* of the time.
    > But I can imagine situations where that would break down; for example, if I
    > had two numbered lists under items in the same bulleted list.

    That's why many professionals use the "dummy restart" method that was developed by Margaret Aldis, Dave Rado, and many others. It uses a style formatted as "hidden" as the list level 1 style, which you can insert anywhere to restart the list.

    There is also an attempt by John McGhie to work with manual restarts, and fix the document each time you create a new "list". But it took me several days to just get a glimpse of what his macros do, and it would probably need weeks to make it work (adapt the macros, set up templates/styles/toolbars).
    They also don't help you if you need to copy/paste lists between documents (as far as I remember).

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16>Klaus

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    Post deleted by KRushlo

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    Well, although Word's numbering system leaves much to be desired, I wouldn't say you have to resort to tricks. Linking your numbering to styles should solve your problem & you can have numerous lists in a document. You can also use {SEQ} fields & have as many different lists as you want. Nevertheless, I agree that numbering is one of Word's more problematic "features".

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2000

    > On another note, however, we are making the transition from Word97 to Word 2000 ...

    As Phil said, the most important question is whether the authors used styles (and the appropriate ones!). If they did, you can still reapply the styles (replace "Heading 1" with "Heading 1" ...), and most of the troubles resulting from additional manual formatting or new style definitions should disappear.

    But I have seen far too many documents where it would have been easier to save them as text and redo the formatting from scratch.

    It's always been too hard to create well-formatted, well-structured documents in Word, and MS has done nothing to make it easier in any new version.

    Reserve a place at the funny farm for me <img src=/S/clown.gif border=0 alt=clown width=15 height=15>

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16>Klaus

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    Re: Restarting numbering in numbered paragraphs (2

    Most of your observations are absolutely correct. Word's numbering is more complicated than can be absorbed in a few hours & it's buggy. There are thousands of posts in newsgroups with "spaghetti" numbering. <post#=76976>post 76976</post#> will give you some rules to follow. I could have sworn that Gary Frieder posted an even more detailed explanation, but I can't find it right now. Here are two tips that I copied & edited that were in answer to a similar question. Again, I can't find the original source right now. However, these were written by John McGhie, MVP & Dave Rado, MVP in the Microsoft newsgroup. If I find the original URL, I'll insert it later.
    --------------------------------------
    Numbering: Resetting Numbering Not Available
    [I've created a document called NumberingStyles with 4 styles & copied to normal. However, if you copy a list with this formatting from another document & then paste it in a new document, all listnumbering that is below the pasted text is renumbered.]

    John McGhie's answer on "resetting numbering not available" & Dave Rado: [edited]
    By John McGhie:
    What has happened is that your letter-sequence and your number sequence are members of two different lists. You can't reset the numbering because there's nothing above it to reset to! Chances are your lists have got themselves defined as two simple lists.The reason you can't "reset on higher" is that simple lists have only one level: there is no "higher".

    In Word 97, the default was a simple list, in Word 2000 it's an outline list.

    To do what you want, remove the numbering entirely, and replace it as an Outline List (Outline Lists have nine levels).

    You need to define your styles into your numbered list, not your numbered list into your styles. It is best if you do write a macro to do this. It needs to be a fairly fierce macro...

    But to begin with, I suggest that you do the following:

    1. Select the text with the bad numbering (all of it)

    2. Use Format>Bullets and Numbering to set the numbering to None. Now go through all the numbered samples on the dialog and hit the RESET button on each one. This sets them back to their factory defaults.

    3. Make several styles that you will next attach numbering to

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