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  1. #1
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    Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    I originally posted some of this on the VBA board, but now I don't think it has anything to do with VBA and have more information, so forgive the duplicate post, but I don't want to pull out what little is left of my hair. <img src=/S/hairout.gif border=0 alt=hairout width=31 height=23>

    I have several global template files that I have in my WordStartup Folder. Most of their own custom menu on the menu bar. If I open the template file itself, all looks well. However, when I open any document (where they all should be loaded as global templates), crazy things start happening with the menus.

    I found that TGP.dot does not load the custom menu associated with it. Instead, it loads a menu that used to be in Tech.dot (another global template file), but has been deleted. Actually the menu is the same in name only. The contents of the menu appear to mimic a custom toolbar (that I confirmed does not have the same name). I confirmed this menu was deleted Tech.dot. Even replaced the file that used to contain this menu with a blank template file (started with a new doc, saved as .dot, copied modules, but did not add any custom menus). If I go into Tools, Templates and Add-Ins, and clear the check box for the TGP.dot template, this menu goes away. Why does this menu appear? Where could it be coming from?

    I have also used the following code VBA to cycle through the menu controls in the TGP.dot file and it does not find this menu control:

    MsgBox ActiveDocument.CommandBars("Menu Bar").Controls(10).Caption

    So to summarize,

    1. Why this phantom keeps loading with the template file that does not contain it?
    2. Why does it contain the contents of a custom toolbar?
    3. Why does the menu that is supposed to appear with TGP.dot not appear?

    Thanks for any help!!
    Troy

  2. #2
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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Dear Kevin
    We are currently experiencing a similar problem and wondered if you could help.

    We have a template with a custom toolbar - the template is called HouseStyle.dot. The toolbar within is called HouseStyle Styles.

    We have another template called HS1StylesandToolbar.dot.

    This template also has a custom toolbar with loads of styles.

    We click on Tools/Templates and Addins open HouseStyle.dot and open HS1StylesandToolbars.dot. We delete the toolbar from HouseStyle.dot and then copy the toolbar from HS1StylesandToolbars.dot to HouseStyle.dot.

    When we open the HouseStyle.dot template the old toolbar is showing but with the new toolbar name.

    I have tried the following
    Deleted Norma.dot and deleted Toolbar registry key.

    It still won't work - any suggestions on copyin toolbars safely from one template to another when the template you want to copy to already has a toolbar?

    any suggestions you have would be much appreicated.

  3. #3
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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Dear Kevin
    I have just answered my own question!!
    It's not the toolbar we are trying to copy across - it is the menus in the toolbar which we added in one template we are trying to copy to another template.

    Do you know if this is feasible or not?
    Cheers
    Lynn

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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Troy, I saw your post in the VBA forum, and put together a response, but never clicked "Post it". Why?

    Well, I'm not sure I have a complete handle on the topic; but I do have a lot of experience with Word commandbars.

    So, this may not be advice up to MVP standards, but it may help, even a little:

    Commandbars displayed in Word are "amalgamated" -- a combination of all
    Kevin <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Kevin_sig.gif alt="Keep the change, ya filthy animal...">
    <img src=/w3timages/blackline.gif width=33% height=2><img src=/w3timages/redline.gif width=33% height=2><img src=/w3timages/blackline.gif width=33% height=2>

  5. #5
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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Hi Lynn:
    Something is wrong with the whole setup. Loading a template through Tools/Templates & Add-ins, or having a template in your startup folder does NOT make those styles available to a document. A document contains styles from the template upon which it was based. The only way to get new styles into an existing document is to copy them in some fashion (copy & paste, organizer, etc.).

    Also, you cannot delete a toolbar by "opening" it's template through Tools/Templates & add-ins. You must open the template directly or open it in the Organizer.

    Perhaps you can be more exact with what you're trying to do.

  6. #6
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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Hi Lynn,

    The way you describe appears to be leaving something out - when you say you are going to Templates & Add-Ins and opening a template, presumably you mean you are accessing Organizer from that dialog?

    If I understand correctly what you are doing: you have a whole slew of local templates such as for fax, letter, office note etc. Each of these templates contains a standardized set of styles that are generally referred to as 'House Style". To simplify users' access to these styles within each template, each template contains a custom toolbar (called "Fax Styles", "Letter Styles" - and in the 'House Style Blank' template which is called "HouseStyle.dot", the custom toolbar is called 'HouseStyle Styles").

    (and btw the menu items in these toolbars do not call simple built-in Word 'apply style' functions, rather they call macros that are in a global template and which apply the styles - though that is not relevant here.)

    Rather than have to update the entire House Style style set into every individual template, whenever there is a change to the general House Style styles or to the house styles toolbar layout, instead you keep, in the development environment, a template called "HSStylesAndToolbars.dot". - This contains the 'template' so to speak for the style set and for the toolbar.

    You've just updated the 'template' toolbar in HSStylesAndToolbars and you want a reasonably efficient way to propagate that change out to the individual templates. You could write code that would do this, but per Kevin's comments, this might not be wholly reliable, you'd certainly have to make sure the customization contexxt was being set reliably.

    You should be able to use the Organizer to accomplish this reasonably easily for each individual template.
    Have you tried the following?:
    Rather than try to replace the existing toolbar in a given local template, instead copy in the toolbar from HSStylesAndToolbars using the Organizer - so that temporarily you will have two toolbars in the local template - as long as the toolbars do not have the same name, this should not cause a problem.
    Then using Tools > Customize, drag the new menus you need off of the toolbar you've just copied in, onto the toolbar that already was in the local template.
    Then delete the toolbar you've just copied in (leaving the original named toolbar still there), and save and close the local template.

    Does that work? (or are you trying to find an even easier way?)

    Gary

  7. #7
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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Hi Gary
    Yes we were trying to find an easier way, we are using the organiser and the amount of templates we have to update with the new menu items is now getting out of hand.

    We have to have this job done by the end of this week for release on 4th Oct, so it looks like we are going to have to just get on with it.

    I suddenly realised yesterday that when we were copying the toolbars via the organizer, we were stupidly thinking that the menu items were part of the toolbar, which they are not and of course after copying the toolbar over, the menu items from the HSStyles&Toolbar.dot were not copied across - of course they would not be because they are menu items not toolbar buttons.

    Speak to ya later matey
    Lynn

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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Dear Phil
    To explain a little further.
    We have a template called HSStylesandToolbars.dot.

    We update the styles and the toolbar in this template then use it as the base template. We copy the information into all of our other templates which use the same styles and toolbar by using the organizer.

    The mistake we made was thinking that the menu items on the toolbar were in fact part of the toolbar and they are not. So when we were copying the toolbar none of the new menu items were showing - which they would not do because they are menu items.

    So what we are looking for is a quick easy way of copying menu items from one template to another.

    Lynn

  9. #9
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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Hi again Lynn,

    This is the one part that's still got me scratching my head: aren't the menu items part of the toolbar?! If they aren't part of the toolbar, what are they a part of? I thought you can use Organizer to copy an entire toolbar - with all of its menu components - from one document or template to another.

    It sounded from your earlier post like you were trying to replace the toolbar in one template, with the toolbar in another, using Organizer. I was wondering whether maybe there is something buggy about that process i.e. Word is getting confused re which toolbar is which. But if you copy a toolbar wholesale into another template, and then via Customize take just those menu items you need, it should oughta work....

    See you,
    Gary

  10. #10
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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Apparently the menu items are not part of the toolbar - and this is our problem.
    We are having to recreate all the menu items from scratch, e.g. removing all the shortcut keys (have a nifty tool for this), re adding the styles and macros to the menus and then adding the accelerator keys to the necessary characters.
    Lynn

  11. #11
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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Hi Lynn:
    Sorry I wasn't able to get back to you sooner. I see Gary has cleared up some of the issues. I'm a little unclear as to what you are referring to as menu items. You can create a new menu and place "items" on it. You can also create a toolbar & place a menu on the toolbar. However, there is a difference.

    1. Menus cannot be copied from one template to another.
    2. Toolbars that contain items on a menu ARE copied with the toolbar. That is, they act just like toolbar buttons and are part of the toolbar.

    Suppose you want to have a menu that contains a number of styles. The way to do this is to first create a new toolbar through Tools/Customize.../Toolbars tab/New... Then you can go to the Commands tab and choose "New Menu" in the Catagories box. Drag the "New Menu" button from the Commands section to your toolbar. This will create a drop down menu off the toolbar & you can place styles on it.

    If you want a "regular" menu (on the menu bar), you can copy this toolbar menu (by dragging with Ctrl key pressed) to the menu bar. Now, when you want to change toolbars or menus, you can use the Organizer to delete or copy toolbars. While you cannot copy the menu on the menu bar, it is very easy to recreate it by simply copying it from the toolbar. NOTE: you must also copy the styles from one template to the other in order for the menu or toolbar to work as expected.

    I hope this clarifies things.

  12. #12
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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Hi Gary:
    I have a question about something you said.
    <hr>and btw the menu items in these toolbars do not call simple built-in Word 'apply style' functions, rather they call macros that are in a global template and which apply the styles<hr>
    Are you saying that this is true in the templates that you use or that this is always true. That is, if I create a toolbar in a template and then drag styles onto it from the Tools/Customize... dialog box, are you saying these invoke a macro from a global template??
    Thanks,

  13. #13
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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Hi Phil,

    Sorry that part was definitely misleading! - Lynn and I work for the same firm (just on either side of the Atlantic) which is why I had a good idea of what she's trying to do. The bit about calling macros in the global template is a red herring in terms of the current discussion - it's a method we worked out for applying styles, but isn't really relevant to the toolbars problem.

    Gary

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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Hi again,

    Presumably you are only needing to do this rebuild menus from scratch operation in the HS Styles and Toolbars template, and then you will be able to use the Organizer to get the toolbar and menus copied to the individual template?

    Hard to know what happened to make the menu items not be part of the toolbar in the first place; the only scenario I can think of is that at some point or points in time, both the custom toolbar and some of its menu items were mistakenly saved to Normal.dot, rather than the HS Styles and Toolbars template. In that scenario, the toolbar and menu items might appear visible on an individual developer's machine, while in actuality the toolbar and/or some of its menus might not actually be saved to HS Styles and Toolbars.

    In the above scenario, if the menus are recreated properly and saved to HS Styles and Toolbars, it should then be possible to use Organizer to conveniently get these changes updated into the other templates.

    Gary

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    Re: Custom menu madness (Word 2000)

    Troy,

    We had a similar problem....only happened after we converted from W97 to W2000...we have lots of templates containing custom menus w/many items....and after converting to W2000 the menus started disappearing and/or being replaced w/menus & items from other templates. There is a Knowledge Base Article (Q265105) relating to the disappearing menu items. They state it's a bug & that there is a fix for it.....I contacted them and got the fix but it didn't work for us and they basically washed their hands of it at that point.....I tried all sorts of things, including saving to new names, etc. and finally wound up having to recreate all the menus (ouch!)....which did actually solve the problem for us, but what a pain.

    Edited: <!t><!/t> and <!t>.<!/t> tags added around the article number to make the link live. -Mod.

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