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  1. #1
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    Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    We have used our own styles for 3 years with Word in formatting our publications. We have had no problems until we upgraded to XP and Word 2002. The styles still work, but if we make any minor change, Word makes a new style using the same name with CHAR after the name. We have always based our styles on "no style," but these new styles are based on default and we have to be very careful getting rid of them. In the past, we have even been able to change the indent without affecting the styles. We do not use the automatically update feature. I have seen this problem addressed on the Microsoft site, but have not been able to find any answers. Thanks

    Jill

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    HI Jill:
    I don't have Word 2002. However, check out Tools/AutoCorrect/AutoFormat as you type/ & make sure that "Define styles based on your formatting" is unchecked.

    Hope this helps.

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    Thanks, we have this unchecked. We have as many of the "automatic" features unchecked as possible.

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    Jill, my guess is that Microsoft considers this a "feature." I think the logic goes that if you use styles, you will be able to see from the style button on the formatting bar if any formatting changes have been made to your basic style.

    I agree, however, that this is a most irritating feature, but I haven't found any way to turn it off.
    Samantha

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    It certainly is irritating! I have 6 employees who work on the same documents and all documents are to have the same styles and parameters. Having these weird styles pop up is time consuming because we have to correct the documents.

    Thanks for replying.

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    Perhaps understanding why and when these char styles pop up will help to prevent them.

    When you have part of a paragraph selected and apply another paragraph style "X", Word will create a new character style "X char" and apply that.

    In Word2000, this formatting would have been applied as manual formatting.
    In general, you don't want to have manual formatting, so I like the behaviour of Word2002 better.

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16> Klaus

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    It would be fine if we didn't work on massive amounts of documents that we compile as pdfs. When we have these "X char" styles, we have to go in and reformat the documents. It is interesting that the manual formatting usually holds when we apply the original style the second time. We then have to delete the "X char" styles in order for all documents to have the same styles. Each document is thoroughly proofread and having to proofread with the extra styles is another time-consuming action. The problem is that we are always on an ASAP time frame and don't have the luxury of fooling around with these "extra" styles.

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    In Word XP, look in the Tools, Options - Edit tab.

    If the 'Keep track of formatting' is ticked this will create a new style if you make any formatting changes to the characters within the paragraph, with whatever the extra formatting is, eg 'Body Text + Bold'.

    Hope this helps.
    Carol

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    Thanks for the reply, we have that option turned off. Most of our options are turned off because we need to keep our documents as "clean" as possible.

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    Also make sure this is turned off:

    1. On the Tools menu, click Templates and Add-Ins. 2. If the Automatically update document styles check box is selected, click to clear the check box.

    This from MSKB Q291442.

    I'm sorry Klaus, I have to disagree -- I don't want my styles to change without expressly being asked.

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    > I'm sorry Klaus, I have to disagree -- I don't want my styles to change without expressly being asked.

    It's not a question about styles changing without expressly being asked: Word2000 applied manual formatting when you expressly applied a style.
    At least Word2002 applies a style if I ask it to apply a style (even though it has to create the style first).

    On a related note: I'm not sure if I should like or hate the fact that the "Normal" style is set to "Automatically update". As with the char styles, it's probably a setting aimed to enforce the use of styles (which is not a bad thing).
    The problem with both is that users who don't know about styles are sure to run into trouble.

    BTW, I've heard that SR1 fixed some problems regarding the Char styles -- though I don't remember details. I think it had to do with editing documents with older versions, which led to "Char Char" and "Char Char Char" ... styles when you later reopened the doc in Word2002.

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16> Klaus

  12. #12
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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    All,

    This problem has been giving us fits, as well. I am unable to find anything in the Microsoft Knowledge Base on it, but then again, knowing how to word the query is the trick. If any of you have a Q article number or other link to further information, I would appreciate seeing it.

    We are running Office XP SR1, and in addition to having this Char Char problem in docs migrated from Word 97, the problem also occurs in new docs created in Word 2002 SR1 with a new 2002 version of Normal.dot that has "automatically update" turned OFF for Normal style. Once this problem has polluted a document, the phantom Char Char style names remain in the metadata (as seen when using the Recover Text filter to open the doc)--even if the Char Char styles no longer appear in use anywhere in the document or on the Style list. You can also see these on the list of styles in the Edit Find dialog box as well as the Format Settings box (for defining which styles to show in the task pane).

    We are now experimenting with turning off the "Keep track of formatting" setting. My theory about the "Keep track of formatting" setting is that you're effectively telling Word you want it to treat manual formatting like defined styles (i.e., keep track of it to apply other things). I don't think Word is doing this quite right and is making up these style names when it gets confused. Especially since the Char style is usually shown as being a paragraph style based on a character style (the Default Paragraph Font)!

    Thanks for any additional information.

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    Hi Lynn,

    Perhaps the macro from Guy ("Nuking inactive user styles") will help, or my own macro to delete unused styles (see appended file).

    I'll repeat it once too often someday, but MS made a mess by defining character properties in paragraph styles. They should have kept paragraph styles (for paragraph properties) and character styles (for character properties) strictly separated, with diffetrent dialogs, dropdowns, and all.

    And as I said previously in this thread, Word has to make up the Char styles if you try to apply a paragraph style to only a part of a paragraph. You need a Char(acter) style if you want to do that -- though I can't imagine *why* you'd want that anyway. Things were better in the old times (up to Word 6, I think), when Word simply wouldn't allow you to do such things.

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16> Klaus
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Re: Word 2002 styles (XP Word 2002)

    Like other posters to this thread, I too am waiting with bated breath for a solution to the Char styles proliferation. If anyone has found that SR 1 or 2 stops it somehow, as Klaus suggested it might, please post and let me know! thanks...

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    Re: hybrid styles cleanup solution

    I am on Word 2002 SP 2. The hybrid styles problem still exists.
    Here is a method of converting a hybrid style back to a normal style in VBA. I believe there is no way to do this through the user interface.

    With ActiveDocument
    .Styles("Hybrid style").LinkStyle = "Normal"
    .Styles("Hybrid st yle char").LinkStyle = "Normal"
    .Styles("Hybrid style char").Delete
    End With

    Hybrid styles arise through a number of circumstances, I have not found a way to stop them being created. But cleaning them up is a start!

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