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  1. #1
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    Gettint to a web site if applets are not enabled

    Not too long ago, with the advice of some in these forums, I disabled applets, etc. so that macromedia stuff
    would not be pushed onto my system.

    This has caused few problems, as most web sites do not prevent access if one refuses to download the macromedia stuff.
    I've run into a site that is being stubborn. How does the following code prevent me from getting to the site?

    <pre><html>
    <head>
    <title>Anim-FX</title>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
    </head>

    <body leftmargin="0" topmargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">
    <div align="center"><object classid="clsid27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase=
    "http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=4,0,2,0
    " width="100%" height="100%" align="middle">
    <param name=quality value=high><param name="SRC" value="waves.swf">

    <embed src="waves.swf" quality=high pluginspage=
    "http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=
    ShockwaveFlash" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%" height="100%" align="middle">
    </embed>
    </object>

    </div>
    </body>
    </html>
    </pre>


  2. #2
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    Re: Gettint to a web site if applets are not enabled

    Hi Howard,

    Two comments...

    1) The problem is not that you are prevented from viewing this site. This site is one of the rapidly growing number in which the interface of the page (or possibly the entire site) is completely delivered through a Flash object. There is no NON-Flash content on the page you posted below. (Although, many developers do offer a non-flash alternative. JavaScript can detect whether the Flash Player of the correct version is there. If so, they get the Flash content, otherwise they get alternate content.)

    2)I would never recommend that anyone disable Flash. It is one of the fastest growing delivery methods on the web. If you are one of the <2% of web users who refuses to download (or disables) the Flash player (one-time download of about 600KB), you are missing a LOT of interactivity. I realize that Flash has previously been considered a "toy" that's only used for animations. However, let me assure you that the most recent version (Flash MX) has gone far beyond. It can now be used as a common programming interface, since all browser versions can use the same version of Flash. It can be used to deliver data-driven content (connected to data sources or XML files)... You name it, Flash can do it.

    I can't imagine a reason that one who has a few minutes to spare for the one-time download would choose not to use it. If you're worried about wasting time to download additional Flash content, you shouldn't. Flash is one of the most efficient delivery methods available - all graphics are either highly compressed or converted to vectors, making very small file sizes.

    Now as for Java Applets, I have a different opinion. I see most Java Applets (especially the ones automatically generated by older versions of FrontPage for navigation) as being highly inefficient (when compared with Flash). I'm not sure how big the download files are, but the time and effort it takes to load the Java Virtual Machine is just not worth it. (I realize there are some legitimate "business applications" that use Java Applets. My feelings do not apply to those situations.) In my opinion, Java Applets are headed out and Flash is coming to stay.

    You should visit Macromedia's Website for more information about Flash and what it can do.

    Hope this helps!

  3. #3
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
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    Re: Gettint to a web site if applets are not enabled

    I've seen some people put the "Skip Intro" button inside the animation itself. Not good for you non-Flashers. Maybe try a search engine to see if there's an alternate text/html index page.

  4. #4
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    Re: Gettint to a web site if applets are not enabled

    I happen to personally know the owner/creator of the web site.

    Since turning off the applets, I've only run into a few sites that give me problems


    I may enable applets for particular cases, but I refuse to load such software on my system, not to mention object to a web site trying to load the software on my system.
    But that subject is for other threads.

  5. #5
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    Re: Gettint to a web site if applets are not enabled

    My religion holds that a web site is improperly designed if the site relies on a visitor having other than the default software provided with the installed OS. Optionally, perhaps, as a requirement, no.

    At my age, I am no longer willing to argue about religion.

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    Re: Gettint to a web site if applets are not enabled

    I'm not one to argue with you about your religion.

    However, you might check out this article.

    If you're using WindowsXP, you already have Flash Player. If you're not using WindowsXP, then you must have upgraded your browser to IE6 (shown in your profile), which has Flash Player included by default.

    It's a well-known fact that over 97% of all web users can view Flash content - and that percentage is increasing every day.

    On the other hand, one could always disable Flash player, Java applets, JavaScript, all Images, and view the web as it was originally intended - a la 1994! (Even then, version 1 and 2 browsers were not included as default software provided with the installed OS...)

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    Re: Gettint to a web site if applets are not enabled

    I'd fire anybody who designed a web site based on Windows XP.
    Most users do not have Windoze XP.

    I do have IE 6 and I do have whatever Flash is included with IE 6 or other software I chse to install.

    Sites such as the one I posted code for are ill-designed, or there could be a bug in IE 6 or IE 6 might disable Flash if I disable applets.

    I really don't care, but I will not use such a site that requires a software download such as macromedia whatever.

  8. #8
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    Re: Gettint to a web site if applets are not enabled

    I hope you didn't misunderstand my reason for citing the inclusion of Flash Player with WindowsXP. My point was that Flash Player is becoming more and more a part of the web whether we like it or not.

    I think, perhaps, that Flash has left a bad impression on some users because of the many sites that are poorly designed. I agree wholeheartedly that anything requiring the option to "Skip Intro" is very bad design. I also agree that any site requiring a download of extra software is bad and I usually prevent it from installing (and never go back).

    Flash, however, should be considered an exception to that thinking for several reasons. First, it is VERY highly optimized for web use. It is able to squeeze a LOT of information into a very small file-size. It converts all artwork to vectors and compresses all rastar images and sound very highly.

    Second, although the earlier versions of Flash were used (and overused) mostly for visual effects, the latest version has gone above and beyond. The newest version, FlashMX, opens a whole new door of possibilities for Rich Internet Applications. The potential for efficiency and interactivity of these applications is unbelievable! The trips between the client and server are transparent to the user, while the potential for interface design is not limited by HTML.

    Finally, Flash creates an opportunity for developers to write code that does not depend on browser version. I don't know how much web development you've done, but it's very time consuming to write code that works correctly in 3 or 4 different versions and types of browsers. Flash can use 1 version of code for any and all browsers (since the code runs in Flash player). AND - back to the point I made earlier about Flash now coming standard with WindowsXP - it is so widely used (more than 97% of all web users), that it is already being considered a "standard". Of course, I'm not an expert on standards...

    Perhaps if you take a minute to look at some well-designed sites that use Flash to create Rich Internet Applications you might see some benefits of using the player. (be sure to enable your Flash player before visiting these sites)
    -Moen faucet company uses Flash to allow users to design their own kitchen (click on the links on the left): http://www.moen.com/Consumer/product...dyok/demo.html
    -Broadmoor hotel (in Colorado) uses Flash to integrate the reservation process into 1 step. They can show you the availability of rooms, the types of rooms (with pictures), collect credit card info (including data validation), and complete the process without even refreshing the page! http://reservations.broadmoor.com
    (Imagine how many trips to the server this same process would take with HTML and ASP!)

    I do understand that there are situations when users may not have Flash or may choose not to use it. As with all emerging standards, there should be a period of time that alternatives are offered (such as older browsers that did not support images or frames). However, assuming Flash's popularity remains (and grows), I believe that it will become an unquestionable standard in Internet use very soon...

  9. #9
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    Re: Gettint to a web site if applets are not enabled

    My objection is not with Flash, if it is bundled with the OS or IE.
    My objection is the design of sites that try to force you to download the software separately and, worse, sites that do not offer a way to at least browse the site without use such software.

    Since IE 6 may include Flash, I have no idea why that is not sufficient.
    I guess the software cannot run because I have applets disabled.
    Too damn bad!

  10. #10
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    Re: Gettin to a web site if plug-ins are disabled

    By the way, Howard, let's clarify something. We're actually talking about disabling the option to "Run ActiveX controls and plug-ins" (as found under the Security tab of the Internet Options dialog in IE6).

    Disabling "Scripting of Java applets" has no effect on Flash objects, although disabling Java Script ("Active scripting") could possibly prevent a Flash object from displaying if the page happens to use JavaScript to detect for Flash player.

  11. #11
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    Re: Gettin to a web site if plug-ins are disabled

    FYI, AFAIK, I have the Java stuff enabled.

    "Run ActiveX controls and plug-ins" is set to Prompt.

    I think the problem is that the site in question just not offer an alternative interface.
    That's just bad design.

    I've seen other sites that are in some ways worse, i.e., they require cookies to merely browse.
    As I recall, http://www.nordstrom.com used to be that way, but I now see that they have remedied that problem.
    But http://www.staples.com still will not allow browsing without cookies being enabled.

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