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  1. #1
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    Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    Probably closely related to the two recent threads - my problem is with the 'Links' toolbar. Often when a new link is added, the link shows with a site specific icon that I find useful for identifying the site. However, in every case the icon eventually defaults back to the IE icon associated with url.dll in C:WINDOWSsystem32. Generally the 'reversion' to the default IE icon occurs within a day or so, though the time taken seems to vary from site to site (added a couple of sites 2 days ago - one icon lasted only about half a day & the other about a day & a half).

    Is there ANY way to make the site specific icon stick permanently? Or some way to save the icon so I can link back to it again (ie. under rt click - properties - change icon)?

    David

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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    Hi David:
    I haven't had that happen, so I may be steering you wrong. However, if you right click the shortcut in the links toolbar & choose Properties, a dialog box comes up. You can click the shortcut tab & that should let you choose the icon. It "should" stick.
    Cheers,

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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    To extend the comment by R2, if you flush out your browser cache frequently, you may well be flushing out those icon files, too.

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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    I am not sure if your problem is related to the other thread either -- but that is one of the things I am trying to figure out... Your problem is much easier to grasp. Although you did not come out and say it, your problem will occur on both the Links toolbar and the Favorites folder -- because Links is a subset of Favorites.

    What you are seeing is the "TIF" in action. The Temporary Internet Files folder is a temporary storage holder for items or objects that you downloaded off the Internet. This includes the icons for .URL's (Internet Shortcuts).

    When you first enter a .URL into your Favorites or Links folders, the icon is the "favicon" of the site to which the URL links. To find the icon for the lounge (the lizard head), simply enter this into your address bar:
    http://www.wopr.com/favicon.ico

    Early on, your Favorites or Links folder is finding the correct icon as an *.ico file stored within the recesses of your TIF. Then, several days go by and your TIF gets filled with other items and objects. Since the TIF has a limited storage capacity (controlled under Tools | Internet Options | TIF | Settings | Amount of disk space to use), sooner or later it will be forced to dump the favicon -- and your Link will switch to the default .URL icon.

    There are several ways that you can address this problem. You can go to each site's "/favicon.ico" and manually download the icon file. Save ALL your Icons in a folder named "Web Icons" -- in Win9x, you want that folder under C:WindowsSystem -- and the reason will become quickly obvious as to why. I suspect the WinXP equivalent would be C:WinNTSystem32 -- but you can put it where ever you prefer.

    You will then need to manually assign the icons to the shortcuts using the aforementioned method.

    Alternatively, most users like to use PCmag's FavOrg -- which helps automate the process.

    If you prefer to manually harvest Favicons, I personally use this method.

  5. #5
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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    Many thanks for the detailed replies - they indeed hit the nail on the head. Yes, same problem applied to my favorites lists. That did not bother me to the same extent as I have most frequently used links (weather, White Pages, Google etc) on the Links toolbar. Like to keep the names short so I can pack as many on as I can - hence the icons become more important. A bit embarrassing that I did not pick up on the _temporary_ aspect of the issue though (clearly no budding Newton here)!

    Pity that "Add .." to Favorites does not also save the favicons. I found I can just drag the favicons from "Temporary Internet Files" to a new folder "Web Icons" that I made under "Cocuments and Settings...user..." (prefer that to "C:WINDOWSsystem32" - keeps all settings together). So far seems to work OK, but of course there are many sites without the favicons visible so I will try FavOrg.

    Again, many thanks for the replies
    David

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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    DDS--

    This might help. The reversion to the default <font color=blue>"e"</font color=blue> that you lament is the loss of the favicon, when TIF's are cleaned. If you do it the way most do, from Options>Delete Files, some will stay indefinitely when tucked in a folder, because as Dave A. taught me on one of the threads below, you aren't fully cleaning out TIFs until you do it from Windows Explorer. The favicon.ico folder is located within the TIF's. You can capture some but not all favicons bu pulling the "e" from the title bar of a web page--Lex is a case in point, the New York Times favicon is one that doesn't behave this way.


    I want to stress though, there is a hidden stash of interesting, varied, colorful icons that will stick through rain, sleet, snow, TIF deletions or reboots and these aren't favicons. You get them by right clicking the <font color=blue>"e"</font color=blue> or the "folder," or a current favion, and then browsing, and they are contained in the folders of the iconnettes you see in the Change Icon dialogue box --you just have to check each one by trial and error, and you can also go into different folders, via the pull up at the top----you can go into "C," or "Windows," or Programs, ect. and select those icons and they will be permanent. I have a growing list of about 40 folders with 1000 icons I can get --drag to links, favorites, or anywhere else. If you like PM me and I'll send the list--too long to post. I find new folders for icons every day--Woody gave me the tip through his XP for Dummies book.

    If I am reading the thread correctly, no matter where your icons are, the icons you are talking about are favicons, and preserving/losing the favicons as R2 discussed, has been explored pretty well on a couple recent threads, Preserving icons/Lounge Matters,
    Icons/Lounge Matters
    IE Icons/Lounge Matters
    Search Icon Can't Find favicon.ico Folder/Win XP Pro
    Preserve Your Favicons

    defrag

  7. #7
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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    I do not know which thread of Lex' to which you are refering, but to me the NYTimes icon works just like every other favicon I have ever encountered:

    1) It exists at "www.nytimes.com/favicon.ico".
    2) It is stored in the TIF
    3) It can be retrieved from the TIF.

    What magic properties is it supposed to posess???
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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    DDS - you can put the "Web Icon" folder where ever you like -- as long as it is easy to find under the Properties dialog box.

    If you really want to find icons on your system (I am not sure you do), I would recommend this freeware program: IconSnatcher.

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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    R2--
    I'm unclear here. I linked to every thread to which I referred--no thread of Lex. What I have noticed is that when you shortcut from a web page--sometimes the favicons shows and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the favicon survives in a folder whether you clean TIF from Explorer or not--sometimes it doesn't. I don't know why since most favicons have been of course dumped by the capacity you referenced, not all of the Lex favicons have been--even when it has been cleaned from Explorer (the distinction Dave A. made that fully cleans TIF). Thanks for the favicon url--I didn't know it and it will help me grab some favicons.

    When you go to the NY Times,without favicon.ico on the url, you don't always see the favicon if you do a simple send to desktop--do you know why that is? Also the tip to pull the "e" from the name bar that Bruce referenced a while back, works at some sites, and doesn't at others. I can always get Lex if I pull the "e" from the wopr name bar, but not the NY Times favicon if I pull it's "e."

    The icon extractors are useful and fun--but they won't get many of the intrinsic icons you can get from going to the files yourself from the change icon dialogue box. I appreciate the url information on the favicon, and the other programs from CDI, Appreciate the link to extracting the favicon--maybe that'll solve my problem.

    Thanks,

    defrag

  10. #10
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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    Sorry, it is my confusion. What do you mean by "Lex"? I think I get it -- you mean the Lizard!! Duh!! OK, let me re-read that....

    >>"Sometimes the favicon survives in a folder whether you clean TIF from Explorer or not--sometimes it doesn't."

    I believe that is a 'problem' in the way the TIF is cleaned. We both agree, I think, that using the Internet Options "Delete Files" button simply is not 100% effective -- so, yes, it could theoretically leave an .ico resource inside the TIF. That is not supposed to happen -- Delete Files is supposed to delete ALL the files. It just doesn't work like it is supposed to. <img src=/S/frown.gif border=0 alt=frown width=15 height=15>

    So, I certainly would not rely on the TIF's quirkly 'cleanability' to hold on to my icons. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15> I would expect that sooner or later the TIF will dump your icon.

    A "Send To Desktop" could have several meanings! In the "SendTo" folder there is a Desktop (create shortcu) option. I would NOT expect that to correctly associate te favicon with the file. That is not something the Windows Shell normally would do -- because you are crossing zone barriers and the Shell will not let you do that. If you are expecting that to work, it should not -- and that is appropriate.

    If you are referring to "Set As Desktop Item" or "Save As Webpage" -- then I suspect those methods also should NOT maintain the favicon.

    The only way that I know of that creates a shortcut AND appropriately maintains the icon stored in the TIF -- albeit temporarily -- is if you create a shortcut to your Favoirtes folder or your Favorites/Links folder. If anyone knows another method, please post it.

    >>"Also the tip to pull the "e" from the name bar that Bruce referenced a while back, works at some sites, and doesn't at others."

    That is in part because some sites simply have not bothered to create a favicon. If there is no favicon, then the TIF has nothing to store and the Favorites folder shows you the default "e".

    >>"I can always get Lex if I pull the "e" from the wopr name bar, but not the NY Times favicon if I pull it's "e.""

    Not me. I can pull the NYT page as often as I like and the "T" appears in the Favorites folder. That is how it should work. If it does not on your computer, then something is not right. Many things might interfere (bad connection to the NYT site, an over-filled TIF, low system resources, etc.). Regardless, the variable behavior you describe certainly is NOT how IE was designed to work.

    Adding the URL (Internet Shorcut) to the Favorites or Links folders should associate the object with the appropriate favicon in the TIF. Is this does not work, then something is wrong somewhere. However, "something wrong with windows" is like "the sun will come out tomorrow". Too many things might interfere... It may just be as simply as requiring the cache to be Refreshed...

    >>"The icon extractors are useful and fun--but they won't get many of the intrinsic icons you can get from going to the files yourself from the change icon dialogue box".

    I must disagree! I have used multiple icon extractors for many years. I have never found an icon via the "Change Icon Dialog Box" I could not grab with Icon Snatcher. An icon resource should be an icon resource -- no matter how you access it!

    Please provide a clear cut example. I am exceedingly interested in this -- because this may relate to the 'hidden' IE toolbar icons. However, I must say I cannot find them using ANY tool -- and that CERTAINLY includes the "Change Icon Dialog Box"! <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15> Thanks.

  11. #11
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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    R2--
    No doubt that the favicon folder is totally dependent on the TIF's complete cleaning that's the house where it lives--and I have learned you absolutely cannot rely on the cleanability. I will continue to clean TIF often from Explorer to see what happens to the rest of the Lexes (Lounge Lizards).

    Now my focus is on making a safe folder to preserve the favicons, because if you can get the favicon, and preserve it in a folder of some kind that will withstand cleaning TIF--and that's what I have long been trying to do, you can then make the favicon permanant, by selecting it using the right click>properties>browse>change icons dialogue box routine. You simply go to that folder, one I have named "Favicons," and it's working, but I don't know how permanantly secure that folder will be. Can a simple folder I create on the desktop be a safe house to hold the favicons or will simply dragging them in there not protect them? I need help making the safe house.

    I understand your "Send to Desktop point"--I just need to get a better understanding of that ubiquitous term Windows shell. A lot of people call themselves members of the "shell group." I know Shell comes from the Unix term for the interface with an OS/shell is the external layer of the program that understands and executes and commands--the command interpreter as opposed to the kernel, an internal layer but still don't have a feel for it.

    I was referring simply to on the IE toolbar File>Send(slide out menu)>Shortcut to Desktop. I have noticed that sometimes when you do that you get the lounge lizard on your destkop, (you used to get the NY Times symbol), sometimes not. From Extreme Tech (see attachment below), you used to get the symbol--maybe it is a function of how much room at the inn there is in the TIF at that time--but I have seen even after I clean it from anywhere this varies.I have been curious to know what is impacting that sometimes. Why can I in the early morning shortcut and get the lizard on my desktop, and five hours later get the <font color=blue>"e"</font color=blue>?

    I don't want to create a shortcut to the favorites folder. I am hoping you can tell me and there may be this info in the other threads--I'll re-look how to build a safe folder for storing the favicon. You have shown me how to get the favicon--but in testing--the favicon is not always available from that url. It is from NYT or WOPR--if I drag Extreme Tech to my "save favicons folder/or desktop" I get the old generic "e" every time. I suspect the favicons in my save favicon folder are going to get dumped when I clean TIF completely.

    What you say on the tip to pull the "e" isn't because some sites haven't bothered to make a favicon. Some haven't. But if you pull from WOPR to anywhere, you get green lizard. If you go to The New York Times and pull the <font color=blue>"e"</font color=blue> from the namebar, you're going to get <font color=blue>the "e" not the fancy T.</font color=blue>

    Thanks to your favicons.ico add on tip in the url, I can now get the favicon if it is available--I just need help in keeping it--I believe I found a way which is to nail it with permanancy by using the Rt. Click>Change Icons Dialogue Box before you clean TIF. Does anyone know how to build a safe folder house for the favicons other than my using the Change Icons dialogue box to nail them with permanancy and immunity from a thorough TIF clean or reboot which also can blow them away?
    __________________________________________________ __________________________
    Ed. Note: I also tried several ways to select out, to cut, to get rid of the chunk of white space with Paint--I'm sure I could have gotten it out with Irfranview or Hard Copy or others--I could have stretched the images to a smaller percent and tried but you couldn't read the printing--any way I could have taken a bite out of that white with Paint?

    The top is what happens when you go to www.extremetech.favicon.ico and the bottom shows the save favicons folder with Extreme Tech's dragged 'favicon' from that site already imediately converted to an <font color=blue>"e".</font color=blue>
    __________________________________________________ _________________________

    Thanks,

    defrag
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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    I just pulled the NYtimes site to my Favorites. There is the icon. That is how it is supposed to work. Grant it, Windows simply is NOT reliable enough and sometimes this might not work. I have just learned to accept some quirks! Is it related to 'caching' of the site? Maybe, I don't know. I can get the NYTimes icon fairly consistently.
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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    The ONLY *safe* way to maintain a favicon is to get it OUT of the TIF. You have to create another folder and you have to save JUST the .ico file -- not the Shortcut -- in that file. I suspect the "File | Send | Shortcut to Desktop" is not much different than the "Send to | Desktop (as Shortcut)". It matters little. Anything that relies on the TIF for storing the icon is doomed to fail sooner or later. If you save the favicon in a different folder, it will be completely immune to TIF cleaning. While nothing is "permanently secure", this is "sufficiently secure". <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>

    Yes, you need to assign this icon via the right-click Properties dialog box to make it 'stick'.

    >>"the favicon is not always available from that url"

    Correct. The 'favicon.ico' is the standard -- but not everyone uses that. You CAN still figure out the source if you look in the TIF.

    As for ExtremeTech -- I really don't see an icon at all from them! It is clearly not stored at "http://www.extremetech.com/favicon.ico". It appears to me that they have been too lazy to create a favicon. Or, if they have, they have NOT followed the correct guidelines for posting a favicon.

    They MAY have had a favicon in the past, but presently it is not there. You will never get a favicon if the site did not bother to create one....

  14. #14
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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    R2--
    Truly appreciate what you've allowed me to do which is now to go after favicons. As to Extreme Tech--they used to (spring, summer ) have one that looked a lot like the box you get at it's favicon.ico site--possibly for reasons I don't know, they withdrew the favicon. By pulled the NYT to your favorites--I think you mean you dragged it from the namebar--I'll try and see--correct me if I'm wrong there.

    I am using the rt. click properties dialogue box to try to "make it stick." I'll know if it is in a while. I want to do some reboots. They must clear the TIF although at first I wouldn't think so, because in the past by just getting the favicon and doing nothing to protect it booting lost the favicon.

    Do you know what's going on when I drag a favicon and get it from the url/favicon.ico site and get a name for the favicon that is favicon[1, 2, 3......]--because then I have to rename it something or it will clash with say a previous favicon from anywhere if it has the same number in its brackets which is why I go on and name it something and get rid of that number that causes the clash.

    This means then, if I'm right and I'd appreciate your confirmation--these guys below that I was able to grab thanks to what you showed me--can be dialogue box nailed, but they are still TIF inhabitants even in that folder--and vulnerable. I thought that in a previous thread Book Lady or Dave A. had indicated a way to make or rename a folder to make it protective. Can you think of any way? It only takes a few clicks to get a favicon if it's available and "dialogue box save it," but there must be a way to collect all these favicons and put them in a safe folder.

    Also, I went directly to the TIF in the Windows Folder, did a search after setting View to show all hidden folders and hidden Windows folders (advanced) and using .ico or favicons, or favicons.ico cannot find that folder anywhere. What step am I leaving out?

    Thanks for the help and info. It's interesting I got the indistinct fonts in this image using Photo Editor-- which was much easier to crop with then paint--there were actually two windows I could drag closed--obviously I need to practice with Photo Editor and learn it better.

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  15. #15
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    Re: Icons again (XP Home SP1)

    As stated several times, you were told to save a copy or move the favicons to a folder and then relink the shortcut in the Favorites list to the icon in the new folder. This folder should NOT be within the TIF folder or be on the desk top. If you use the desk top you are going to run out of room, and it can not be shared by other users.

    If you right click the link in the Menu listing and select the properties and change icon, then the favicon will appear with in the Menu list or on the links tool bar.

    As for the "favicons.ico cannot find that folder anywhere" there is NOT one, you have to make a new folder in which to save these icons in. These favicons will only be on your system if the webmaster has set up the use of them and then they will be downloaded to your tif folder when you save a link in the favorites listing. Very few webmasters use these as they are a pain in the <img src=/w3timages/censored.gif alt=censored border=0> to control, because some one is always <img src=/w3timages/censored.gif alt=censored border=0> about them missing every time the tif folder is cleaned up.

    This said, lets put this dead horse to bed.

    Now running HP Pavilion a6528p, with Win7 64 Bit OS.

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