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Thread: Embedding Fonts

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    Silver Lounger Bruce K's Avatar
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    Embedding Fonts

    They way I understand it, when directing fonts while coding a web page, the called for font must reside on the viewer's system or it will fall back to a default font.

    Is there a way to actually embed a font as one would a sound or flash file so the viewer sees the particular font as intended for the purpose of a particular presentation or purpose?

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    Plutonium Lounger Leif's Avatar
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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    Yep.
    It's called using graphics <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>.

    Font downloading (I believe) is otherwise controlled in IE's security set-up. If you attempt to force a font download, and the user has set font downloads to Disable, they may end up with a blank screen.
    Personally, I have font downloading disabled as I find most other web "designers" choice of font varies between illegible and hideous. <img src=/S/laugh.gif border=0 alt=laugh width=15 height=15>

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    Silver Lounger Bruce K's Avatar
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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    All kiddin' aside, I do often use graphics to use a custom font I want presented in the page. But often I would like to use a paragraph or paragraphs of matching text. It seems that there would be a way to present the font as one would any other element of a web page as intended. If not, then perhaps this is an opportunity to develop coding or a means to accomplish this. <IMG SRC=http://www.krymow.com/images/smileybuck.gif>

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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    <img src=/S/hello.gif border=0 alt=hello width=25 height=29>

    Unfortunately, you can't have that much control when creating a web page. Makin' web pages is a give and take. As Leif mentioned, many users have the function turned off in I.E. I don't know if other browsers support this. I don't know if there's a standard. I really haven't heard of it. Maybe someone else can pipe in on this. I wouldn't be suprised if there are legal issues with this too. Who pays for the font? <img src=/S/shrug.gif border=0 alt=shrug width=39 height=15>
    If you really want more control over the presentation, mabye Adobe Acrobat, or as Leif mentioned, images.

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16>

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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    Bruce, you've read the other posts on the pitfalls of font downloading, I'm sure. A good practice that you may want to put to use is to specify multiple font names in the style sheet. Take a look at the following example from a style sheet:
    <pre>body, p, table, td, tr, ol, ul {
    color: #FFFFFF;
    font-family: tahoma, verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 10pt;</pre>

    This specifies a choice of fonts. Helvetica and sans-serif are there for non-Windows operating systems that may not have the first three fonts installed. If not specified the page will use the browser's defined default font. You can specify whatever fonts you choose here, and I don't believe there's a limit, but you are always going to have to contend with the possibility that a font you prefer isn't there. You could add a linmk somewhere that takes you to a "page viewing recommendations" section where you provide the fonts in a ZIP for downloading, as the Lounge does. Many page designers will design the content to fit a certain resolution as well - possibly too lazy to test other permutations of the page. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>

    Remember - HTML was designed to control the structure of documents, and CSS was later added to help control the appearance - formatting is not a primary goal of HTML documents.
    -Mark

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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    <hr>Many page designers will design the content to fit a certain resolution...<hr>
    One funny thing I discovered...

    My laptop's 15" LCD screen has a native resolution of 1600x1200. I can use a lower res, but it looks best at 1600x1200. Naturally, it's a little hard to read certain things on the screen - especially in applications that don't use the Windows Appearance scheme's fonts and sizes. Anyway, I bumped my default font size to Large (120 DPI) - found on the General tab of the Advanced Display properties, located on the Settings tab of the Display properties.

    I noticed that many webpages using Absolute sizes and positioning were greatly distorted! At first, I thought it was limited to a few poorly-designed sites. But I discovered the same problem on very many well-designed sites. I finally compromised and reduced my font size back to normal (96 DPI). Everything looks fine now.

    This may be a topic for a different thread, but does anyone have any thoughts or advice in this situation (other than trying to use relative sized fonts or placing the text in graphics)?

    Thanks in advance...

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    Silver Lounger Bruce K's Avatar
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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    You are right about the purpose of structure in HTML.

    I do use the font variables to specify fonts in style or font tags where appropriate, but I suppose I am just thinking out loud here a little outside of the box here with a new concept (if it is in fact even new) <img src=/S/boxedin.gif border=0 alt=boxedin width=25 height=20>

    With the plethora of fonts available out there, it is unlikely that many folks have fonts installed outside of the "standard" fonts commonly included with OS root fonts & Office packs. Providing fonts to download to view a page doesn't strike me as friendly in enjoying rich web content & based on human nature I am making the assumption folks wouldn't want to bother having to go through a another step or two to do that.

    What I am suggesting is handling a font as an element of design & presentation like a graphic element. Creating font graphics works well for headers, titles, or short sentences, but beyond that is cumbersome & file bloating. For example, if I have a web page that uses a custom font called CandyCane, most assuredly no one will have it installed. The intention would be to fashion a means to have the custom font embedded/installed/loaded/streamed/whatever as per the design of the page or site without having to download it somewhere and have it presented as are the images on a page, for example, as does our buddy Lex in the corner up there. I don't have to download him somewhere to view him, it just loads.

    I guess I am conceptualizing a way to treat specific fonts as a graphic element without having to turn it into a graphic. Does this make sense? <IMG SRC=http://www.krymow.com/images/icon_groucho.gif>

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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    <hr>Providing fonts to download to view a page doesn't strike me as friendly in enjoying rich web content & based on human nature I am making the assumption folks wouldn't want to bother having to go through a another step or two to do that.<hr>
    That's a true statement. But you can't force feed them fonts either so providing those so inclined is really about the only option you have. This is a caveat of page design. If you just gotta have that one font to make the page look right, you need to provide your own mechanism for obtaining it, or make allowances in your page design for those that either don't have or won't download said typeface.
    <hr>What I am suggesting is handling a font as an element of design presentation like a graphic element.<hr>
    Nothing that any of us can do about that....but you could always submit that idea to the W3C. What you're saying makes perfect sense to me, but it just isn't the way things currently work. <img src=/S/sad.gif border=0 alt=sad width=15 height=15> Personally, I'm kind of glad too, because it's a few more KB to download along with the other code that makes up a page, and I sure don't trust Microsoft to implement this without opening up some serious security hole. Disguise a script as a FON or TTF file, and you're <img src=/S/hosed.gif border=0 alt=hosed width=73 height=24>. <img src=/S/flee.gif border=0 alt=flee width=25 height=25>
    -Mark

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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    And after a while one would have several 1,000's of them. This can happen just by installing some programs. Remember that one CAN have to MANY fonts and the system will become a real hog.

    Now running HP Pavilion a6528p, with Win7 64 Bit OS.

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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    Well, you could create 52 little tiny letter graphic GIFs (to account for upper and lower case) and have your paragraph be nothing but image tags, punctuation and spaces. That would be outside the box!

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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    Given that web pages could have many different target devices, from paper to jumbo CRT to Palm, you could make yourself crazy trying to please all of the people all of the time. I just designed a procedure manual mini-site and I set explicit font point sizes and paragraph spacing because I wanted to control the way it would print out. It's slightly weird-looking on screen, but it's got such big step-by-step illustrations that I don't expect many people to use it that way. To each his own compromises.

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    Silver Lounger Bruce K's Avatar
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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    Darny ~

    That is an incredibly nifty tool! This will serve the purpose in most instances and what I was talking about in describing the manner of loading fonts per the page code to the TIF and thus being treated in the same fashion as any other image.

    The product is free from M$ and seems simple enough. I will give it a whirl. Thanks, Darny!

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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    (Edited by Leif to make link live - see the quick guide)

    The answer is yes provided you use an EOT. Most OE stationery makers use them for the web and emails by using Microsoft Weft.

    http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/em...eft/default.htm

    Cheers, Darny

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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    (Edited by Leif to make link live - see the quick guide)

    Glad to help. Webpage Eot's won't work in Outlook Express emails though. To make eot's for Outlook Express the tutorial is the best.

    http://daaroot.com/FluttrbyDesigns/OE5Stat...WEFTforOE5.html

    Cheryl Soshnik is brilliant when it comes to Eot's whether it's for wepages or emails and can usually be found in the
    news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.publ...ress.stationery group

    Cheers, Darny

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    Silver Lounger Bruce K's Avatar
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    Re: Embedding Fonts

    Darny ~

    Wow! This is some good stuff! Do you use EOTs or did you have successful search? It doesn't seem complicated and it certainly provides a means to an end. I wonder why more folks don't know about this - or is it that obscure?

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