Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
  1. #1
    Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Port Talbot, Wales
    Posts
    71
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Startup Problems

    Hi Guys,
    I ran into a problem on Sunday and was wondering if you could help. I recently built myself a new computer. Gigabyte GA-8PE667 Ultra Mobo, Pentium 2.0 GHz processor, 512 MB 2700 DDR RAM, 80GB HDD, DVD-ROM, CD-RW and a Gigabyte 128MB Radeon 9000 Pro 2 graphics card. It was running fine until sunday morning when my mains power tripped off. When i put the power back on and turned on the computer again everything seemed to start up except my graphics card, my monitor just went straight into standby mode. I switched it off and turned it back on again and the same thing happened. I was wondering if it might by my power supply (300Watts) isn't supplying enough power to the computer so it's 'skipping' my graphics card. I got it working now (took it all apart and put it all back together, didn't change anything) but want to prevent this happening again. Any ideas what could be causign this?

    Thanks In Advance
    Jambo

  2. #2
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,684
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    Hey Jambo,
    I wouldn't suspect the power supply in this instance, unless you have a whole lot of hardware hooked up that you didn't mention. Sounds more like an anomaly created by the power surge when your main power went out or when it came back on. When you said "took it all apart and put it all back together" were you talking about a complete disassembly of the computer hardware or just pulling and reseating the graphics card ??? Either of these "fixes" could have solved the problem, but it would be very hard to troubleshoot this from a single instance given the variable of the power outage. If it happens again without a power outage or surge, I would then suspect a hardware issue and would look first at the new graphics card (I'm assuming that you didn't change your monitor here).
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/DocWatson_sig.gif>

  3. #3
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    43.8N 81.0W, Ontario
    Posts
    815
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    Hi Jambo

    IMHO it's a good idea to be using a good quality power bar with surge and spike protection.
    Even better.....a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply, not the courier <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15> ) with surge/spike protection.
    With either one, it's OK to turn OFF everything at once, eg. at the power supply, but do not turn everything ON at once. Turn on your heavy power hardware first as they will cause a surge when they come on. That is, turn on your monitor first, then scanner, printer, etc with the computer last.

    Have a Great day!!!
    Ken
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/KenK_sig.gif>

  4. #4
    Plutonium Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    12,107
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Re: Startup Problems

    I think Doc's right, that it probably was another one of (PC) life's unexplainable problems. Just to give you an example, two days ago we had a power outage that couldn't have lasted more than 5-10 seconds. But, the two computers I have upstairs rebooted of course. The two are on a KVM switch, using common KB, mouse and monitor. One of the computers refused to recognize that the keyboard was there and the other came up in some kind of LARGE type, like software for the visually impaired. I rebooted each machine several times, unable to fix the two problems. Finally, in frustration, I powered off the KVM switch to reset it and both problems went away. That Win98 machine with the large type and scrolling screen was a puzzler I thought must've had something to do with video settings getting screwed up, AND it's the second time this has happened. Both instances were right after a power glitch and the KVM has been the culprit without me realizing.

  5. #5
    Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Port Talbot, Wales
    Posts
    71
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    I only reseated the Graphics card when i said took it all apart. But i have 3 USB devices and a Network connection too, could these be sapping the power?

    Jambo

  6. #6
    Plutonium Lounger Leif's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    U.K.
    Posts
    14,010
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    I would suspect that if you have a 'power-on' surge problem, you are going to see that again in the future.
    In this day and age, most electronics should incorporate a turn-on reset that allows for the power to settle down on starting before they activate themselves. My best guess would be that you suffered a 'brown-out' when either the power failed or came back on - the power does not switch cleanly and momentarily your normally regulated 5V and 12V power rails droop with uncertain results.
    As has been suggested, often the best cure is to power down for a few minutes and allow all capacitors and other charge reservoirs to totally discharge. (Experience has taught me that some modems in particular need this sort cold boot to reset themselves after throwing a wobbly.)

    The ideal solution is prevention: nothing beats a UPS with transient filtering - it will ensure clean switching on and off of your power. You can pick up very reasonable ones for less than GB

  7. #7
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Newport Richey, Florida, USA
    Posts
    2,149
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    Power surges and electronics don't mix. Kind of like getting shocked real hard, makes us see funny little stars or nothing at all for 4 or 5 minutes. I suppose it's the same thing for computers, minus the stars sence the dang graphis card stops working. If that graphics card could only show you how it felt getting zaped. OUCH!!

  8. #8
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Seattle, Washington
    Posts
    320
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    Maybe this should be a hardware subject, but the question of how big should the power supply be is an interesting question. I straight out snagged this from one of the other boards I frequent, kudos to Geffy at http://www.NTFS.org

    Video
    AGP video card - 30-40W
    PCI video card - 30W

    Processor
    AMD Athlon 900MHz-1.1GHz - 50W
    AMD Athlon 1.2MHz-1.4GHz - 55-65W
    AMD Duron 1.0MHz-1.3GHz - 50W
    AMD Athlon 1.47MHz-1.73GHz - 75W
    Intel Pentium III 800MHz-1.26GHz - 40W
    Intel Pentium 4 1.4GHz-1.7GHz - 65W
    Intel Pentium 4 1.8GHz-2.0GHz - 75W
    Intel Pentium 4 2.2GHz-2.4GHz - 90W
    Intel Celeron 1.0GHz-1.1GHz - 35W
    Intel Celeron 1.2GHz-1.4GHz - 50W

    Motherboard
    ATX Motherboard - 35W-45W

    RAM
    128MB RAM - 10W
    256MB RAM - 20W

    Optical Media
    24X or higher IDE CD-RW Drive - 35W
    32X or higher IDE CD-ROM Drive - 25W
    10x or higher IDE DVD-ROM Drive - 20W
    SCSI CD-RW Drive - 17W
    SCSI CD-ROM Drive - 12W

    Hard Drives
    5,400RPM IDE Hard Drive - 10W
    7,200RPM IDE Hard Drive - 13W
    7,200RPM SCSI Hard Drive - 24W
    10,000RPM SCSI Hard Drive - 30W
    15,000RPM SCSI Hard Drive - 45W

    Floppy Drives
    Floppy Drive - 5W

    Expansion Cards
    Network Card - 4W
    Modem - 5W
    Sound Card - 5W
    SCSI Controller Card - 20W
    Firewire/USB Controller Card - 10W

    Fans
    Case Fan - 3W
    CPU Fan - 3W


    You can add em up and see how close to the max you're coming. I agree that good surge protection is vital (not a question of if, but when you'll get a good ol spike), but we always wonder how much power we're using.

    kip

  9. #9
    Uranium Lounger viking33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,308
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Re: Startup Problems

    When in doubt, OVERSIZE your power supply and run it behind a properly sized UPS. It's better to have more reserve than start to run at the upper edge of your supply wattage/UPS.
    I have a 600 watt power supply in the box and a 750VA UPS, with power and line protection. Neither are even "breathing hard". <img src=/S/meltdown.gif border=0 alt=meltdown width=15 height=15>

    Bob
    BOB
    http://lounge.windowssecrets.com/S/flags/USA.gif http://lounge.windowssecrets.com/S/f...sachusetts.gif


    Long ago, there was a time when men cursed and beat on the ground with sticks. It was called witchcraft.
    Today it is called golf!

  10. #10
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    43.8N 81.0W, Ontario
    Posts
    815
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    Hi all

    The terms surge and spike have been used almost interchangeably in some posts. They are not the same.

    A surge is a relatively gradual rise in voltage with a subsequent gradual decrease, similar to a "bell curve". This typically occurs, for example, when the power drain from the starting of a compressor (eg. freezer, refrigerator) ends and the voltage rapidly rises, overshooting and then levelling off. An effect you might be familiar with is the brief dimming of lights when a freezer compressor starts up with a short extra brightness when the compressor motor gets up to speed. Light bulbs will often burn out when this happens if the refrigerator, freezer, and air conditioner coincidentally start at the same time.

    A spike is a very fast, very high rise and fall of voltage such as you would expect when lightning hits the pole in front of your house. Or, you've been petting your cat then continue rebuilding your computer.....!!!!

    Anyway.......my point is.......don't settle for just surge protection.......you need spike protection as well......not all devices provide both.

    Have a Great day!!!
    Ken
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/KenK_sig.gif>

  11. #11
    Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Port Talbot, Wales
    Posts
    71
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    Cheers Guys,

    jkipk,
    I

  12. #12
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia
    Posts
    730
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    I would hope Kip's (Geffy's) list was of maxima. It's also unlikely that all devices are drawing their full quota simultaneously. So even though you only have 36W to spare, you can probably breathe easy.

    According to that list I'm running 320-350W off my 300W supply. So far it hasn't displayed any aberrant behaviour. That's even on 43
    <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="blue">TimOz</font>
    <img src=/S/flags/Finland.gif border=0 alt=Finland width=30 height=18> <img src=/S/flags/Australia.gif border=0 alt=Australia width=30 height=18>

  13. #13
    Plutonium Lounger Leif's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    U.K.
    Posts
    14,010
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    I would suspect that the consumption (Watts) figures shown are the rated maximumm - in other words, they would need to be fully active to be drawing that much power. A CD drive rated at 25W is not drawing 25W sitting idle - or at least it shouldn't be. In much the same way, a 300W PSU is not continuously using or delivering that much power.
    On boot-up however, many 'accessories' go into into their own start-up sequence; CD units spin regardless of whether or not there is a CD in them, scanners run a self-calibration, etc.
    If you want to play ultra-safe, use the total worst case figures, but I don't think you have to. A little bit of observation and judgement may save the expense of a bigger PSU.

  14. #14
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Seattle, Washington
    Posts
    320
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    By using the chart as a guide, which is it' intended use, you can get a general idea of how much power you are drawing, info that is not readily available otherwise. I see a lot of questions in the forums regarding non-working hardware, and the power supply is suspect in many of them, but I don't know of a definitive way to say "Yup, not enough power". Seems like it would be nice to open a "Power Supply Event Viewer". Until then, at least we can add up the numbers and get some idea. Re Leif's comments, while certainly true of my computer use, and many others. for someone who pops in a CD while burning a hard drive full of mp3's onto a dvd and surfing the web on his overclocked computer chock full of fans is going to run a lot closer to the max, and the truth is that this kind of multi task power drain is becoming a lot more common.....

    An interesting subject. (ps I just bought a Raidmax 400w power supply for about $35us..not the best but it has 2 intake and an exhaust fan and is pretty quiet. I'm happy. Antec seems to be the psu maker of choice....)

    kip

  15. #15
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia
    Posts
    730
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Startup Problems

    Re your "PSU Event Viewer", Intel provides the Intel Active Monitor for their motherboards. It monitors cpu & mobo temp, fan speeds, and several power supply voltages. It creates and logs alerts if any sensor thresholds are breached.

    You should be able to find similar, generic monitors. A search in the hardware forum might be a place to start.
    <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="blue">TimOz</font>
    <img src=/S/flags/Finland.gif border=0 alt=Finland width=30 height=18> <img src=/S/flags/Australia.gif border=0 alt=Australia width=30 height=18>

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •