Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
  1. #1
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Windows 98SE and RAM

    I've been using 64MB of SDRAM with 98SE. I have added a second 128MB stick to the P233 machine. Now I have a couple of questions regarding performance.

    First up, I have heard that Win98 will only utilize about 128MB of RAM (I've also heard the figure of 160MB). One example of the kind of discussion of these issues is here. Not being an expert, I'm unsure what to believe; but assuming this is true, my thought is to use 64MB of the 192MB as a swapfile. I could set this up as a RAMDRIVE on bootup.

    This seems like a viable idea, but I'm hoping somebody "in the know" might be able to offer some concrete advice.

    thanks

    Alan

  2. #2
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Newport Richey, Florida, USA
    Posts
    2,149
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    Give it a try and see what happens. If you get a performance boost thats all that matters, right. I mean if your Machine see's the memory how do they know it's not useing it in some fasion. For example. Lets say you just had 128MB of SDRAM in the Computer and you Benchmarked it, then add the other 64MB and Benchmark it again. If there is a performance gain then there is a good chance that Windows 98 is useing it. That would be away of testing the Idea of what Win98 see's and what it uses. Of course I'm not sure how much of a boost you can take advantage of with a Pent. 233 MHZ, but it's worth a try. But you could always let your 233 BE ALL IT CAN BE and push it to it's best performance. Might even get a little Overclock out of it with the right Motherboard & Chipset. I have pushed several 233's up to 266MHZ. You have to have the right jumper settings on the Motherboard to accomplish this though,

  3. #3
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,684
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    Hey Alan,
    As long as the types of RAM are the same then you shouldn't have any problems. When you try to mix and match different types of RAM, as some motherboard manufacturers said you could back in the day of the 233 Pentium, the system could only see and use some of it. I ran a 233MMX Pentium system, with 192MB of RAM, running Windows 98, for 4 years and 2 years before that running Windows 95b until the CPU quit in December. It's not the OS that limits the RAM, it's the motherboard.
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/DocWatson_sig.gif>

  4. #4
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Newport Richey, Florida, USA
    Posts
    2,149
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    I agree with you Doc Watson. But I have seen articles that state that certain OS's will only use so much memory no matter how much the Motherboard will allow you to install and see. I personally have never run into that problem, or I just didn't know that the OS wasn't using it. I like you don't understand how the OS would have anything to do with the Motherboard using Memory. Like I was thinking, you probably could use Benchmarking to find out. But I would bet the OS would use what ever the Motherboard would take. What do you think?

  5. #5
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dallas plus 20 miles or so, Texas, USA
    Posts
    876
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    I think its largely up to the motherboard, using AIDA32, the highest RAM consumption I can get is 224 megs out of 512, with Excel, Mozilla, Hardcopy, NAV2003, ZAlarm, and various other system tray stuff open at the same time.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    7,089
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    I've been following this thread and I wanted to chime in. Firstly, the rumors you've heard about Windows 98 not using more than 128 MB of system RAM are untrue. Windows 98 and ME can handle up to 1GB of installed RAM (this is documented in the Microsoft article http://Computer May Reboot Continuously with More Than 1.5 GB of RAM). However, problems can result from using less than that amount - more than 512 MB can cause out of memory messages, for example. This is documented in the article titled 253912: "Out of Memory" Error Messages with Large Amounts of RAM Installed. In practice, you can run comfortably up to that amount of memory, but it might be overkill - Windows 9x is light on resources, and doesn't consume as much RAM to load as say, Windows 2000 or XP. If memory serves, Windows 98 will load completely into memory using around 40 MB total, depending upon what is running at startup et al. Once everything is loaded into memory, the extra is like a savings account at the bank. It's there if you need it but otherwise unused.

    As it applies to your original question, Alan, you'll see nothing but benefit from adding RAM in the amount you describe. If you use some of your RAM as a swap file, it will - or better "should" - increase performance because you won't be stuck with the bottleneck of writing to disk. I don't know how it will pan out in practice but the theory is sound. There are other ways to boost your performance without creating a RAM drive. For example, with a copious amount of memory installed, you can tell Windows to use the swap file less by adding the following line to the SYSTEM.INI file under the 386Enh heading:

    <UL><LI>ConservativeSwapFileUsage=1[/list]I would try that first (it requires a reboot) before going with the RAM drive solution; it's easy to do and can be reversed with a reboot. For my own reference when I'm tweaking I posted a page at my website with some other changes you can perform with the SYSTEM.INI, if you're interested.

    Hope that helps....if I can clarify anything here, please let me know. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>
    -Mark

  7. #7
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    7,089
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    Doc/Cowboy,

    The questions in the thread about how it could be possible that the OS limits memory are really esoteric and largely academic. It has to do with the design of Windows 98 and the way that it addresses memory. Regardless of how much RAM is installed, Windows 98/ME have a finite upper limit on how many pages of RAM they can address. A page is 4096 bytes for the x86 platform, which includes the Intel and AMD chips that we all know and love. Windows uses the math that it's based on to address all of these pages.

    In the days that 98 was designed, running a computer with a gig of RAM was not very common - and in fact still isn't (although it's becoming more frequent). Think of this in terms of telephone area codes: you can have the same phone number in multiple cities, but to "address" or call that number from a remote location (other city), you need the area code to make it happen. You're going from seven digits in the number to ten, which allows you to have more uniqueness in the numbering system. Thus, no matter what the motherboard can support, if the software can't talk to the additional memory, it's wasted. Windows 98/ME comparatively can make calls within the country, but not international calls, as would be the case with Windows NT/2000/XP.

    Clear as mud? <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>
    -Mark

  8. #8
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Newport Richey, Florida, USA
    Posts
    2,149
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    What area code. I wasn't trying to make a phone call with Win98 Mark. He He Just kidden. I see what your saying. Makes sense to me. I think. <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16>

  9. #9
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,684
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    Mark,
    Always there with the technical side of the answer. Good on ya mate !!! <img src=/S/aussie.gif border=0 alt=aussie width=21 height=22>

    I know that there are some limits to the amount of RAM that an OS can see, but in everyday situations it seldom is an issue. As you pointed out, the use of 1GB of RAM with a Windows 98 system is not very common (given memory prices at that time <img src=/S/money.gif border=0 alt=money width=17 height=15>, only Mr. Gates could afford that much). I liked your analogy to the telephone area codes. Can I really use Windows 2000, NT & XP to make international phone calls ??? <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/DocWatson_sig.gif>

  10. #10
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    Thanks for the insight Doc. At this point, the plot thickens however. Originally I said that I had 64MB + 128MB = 192MB. This was sort of true, but in fact the 128MB was all that was "reported" from a 256MB stick. Thinking that this was somehow a limitation of what the existing BIOS/mobo could "see", my next move was to reclaim a few bucks by exchanging the 256MB stick for a 128MB stick. The equation would then still be as I stated: 64 + 128 = 192MB. Right?

    Ooooooh no! That would be far too simple. The equation, after said replacement, is now 64 + 128 = 0 + 128 = 128MB. That's more like the kind of arithmetic I've come to expect from computer hardware <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>. Whatever limitation exists, it's not a simple one. It may be, as you suggest, that there's some problem mixing the old PC100 with the new PC133. Regardless, I'm stuck with some kind of illogical barrier. I think I'll just leave it there unless somebody knows the answer... weird?

    Alan

  11. #11
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    Thanks Mark. Despite my lack of expertise here, the more I read about '98 memory usage, the more I tend to get the impression of "esoteric and largely academic" argument, as you so appropriately describe it. Filtering out the snake oil <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15> and the "incomplete" analyses, I tend towards believing that '98 will pretty much use all the memory available to it, in some manner or other. Result - more memory --> better performance; reasons - many & varied, but who cares <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>.

    I have bookmarked your site - looks very useful. I have already implemented some of the tweaks you mention, and will review my settings in search of others.

    Alan

  12. #12
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    Thanks Cowboy. I'm tending to lean towards your try it & see approach. The issues are becoming too complicated to try to analyse the situation (as you see from my other replies). But those jumper settings might end up playing a role other than overclocking - just to get the new memory to be recognized.

    cheers

    Alan

  13. #13
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Newport Richey, Florida, USA
    Posts
    2,149
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    Cool. Yeah give it a shot. And if you have anu questions on the jumper settings let me know. Would need what type of Motherboard you have and I could tell you if it would Overclock. Or you can just mess around with it. If you make a change and it won't boot just set it back were it was and use your Clear CMOS jumper and it will boot back up as if you hadn't done anything. I have had to do that many times when Overclocking, just to see how far it would let me go before it says NOPE. You should be able to get it to 266 MHZ with no problems. Anyway like I said if ya need help let me know or us know.

  14. #14
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dallas plus 20 miles or so, Texas, USA
    Posts
    876
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    You definitely should not mix PC100 with PC133 RAM.

  15. #15
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dallas plus 20 miles or so, Texas, USA
    Posts
    876
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows 98SE and RAM

    Well, I take that back Alan! I had always been under the impression that you should not mix the two, however I have found some sites that suggest that it works!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •