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    Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    I have recently been wrestling with Word 2002 and discovered a few odd things that someone may have come across before. Can anyone verify this behaviour or provide other leads for me to track down?

    A reproducible crash when closing a Word document with a template attached if the file is displaying the Styles and Formatting Task Pane. This behaviour does not occur with very simple templates but does if the templates contain macros, autotext etc. If the task pane is closed or the template detached, the crash doesn't occur on close and therefore can be avoided by an AutoClose macro which closes the task pane.

    Odd formatting of paragraphs inside some tables such that the style inside the table is not consistent with exactly the same style outside the table. Resetting the paragraph and character styles does not cure this. The problem turned out to be table formatting applied to the table (Balloon Text and Indent) both of which caused the odd behaviour. Now I know how to fix it, does anyone know what causes this to occur?

    Runaway style aliases in existing files. These style aliases result in a style name such as
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    Andrew, I'm just getting up and running in Word 2002 so I'm still surfing the learning curve. However, I have seen the run away alias problem you referred to. It appeared to me that it happened everytime some direct formatting was placed on top of the style - thus the style name, plus char, etc. etc. Unfortunately, I don't know a fix at this time. I handled it the same way you did and deleted them when I noticed them cropping up.

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    Re: Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    Hi Andrew... I can help you with the last subject 'runaway' styles. As Pam (Word Witch) mentioned... Word now keeps track of direct formatting applied to a style... 'runaway' styles! I liked the old way of finding direct formatting (Shift+F1 - What's This - NOW - Reveal Formatting in the Task Pane - make sure to turn on the option (at bottom of window) - Distinguish Style Source.
    You may also notice that you can no longer update the style using the Style Box (making a change, clicking on the style in the Style Box - Formatting toolbar) and receiving the Modify Style dialog.

    Now, back to the runaway styles... to turn this feature off and turn back on the ability to update styles using the Style Box...

    Tools, Options, Edit tab - Turn OFF (uncheck) Keep track of formatting (runaway styles) and Turn ON (check) Prompt to update style.

    Hope this helps! trish

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    Re: Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    <hr>You may also notice that you can no longer update the style using the Style Box (making a change, clicking on the style in the Style Box - Formatting toolbar) and receiving the Modify Style dialog.<hr>

    In the same dialog box (Tools > Options > Edit) you can check "Prompt to update style" to get this behaviour back.

    StuartR

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    Re: Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    Thanx for your input Stuart!!! ... I think I mentioned this in the next paragraph after the one which you selected. Glad to see you're keeping me on my toes... trish

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    Re: Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    Keeping you on your toes? It looks like I've fallen off mine. Thanks for your contribution.

    StuartR

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    Re: Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    Hi Andrew - I've had a few run-ins the "Char"(which I pronounce "char as in overcooked" since you have been burnt!) problem before. At first glance it looks like an alias, although it really isn't. It's more like a mutant style. I've seen it happen when someone intends to apply a paragraph style to a single paragraph and there is text selected within that paragraph. Word applies the chosen style to only the selected text. Only the character attributes of the style are applied and the style of the paragraph itself does not change. If that particular paragraph is then cut or copied to the clipboard and is pasted into a document via the clipboard task pane

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    Re: Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    (Edited by HansV to activate link - see <!help=19>Help 19<!/help>)

    HI Andrew,

    I've seen pretty much the same behaviour in a document that I set up to be used by other members of staff for manual writing. I wanted to create a toolbar that would apply certain styles and run some macros. The documents were based on a template that had to be re-attached whenever the file was moved/e-mailed and I thought that it was this that was causing the runaway styles to be generated - almost as if the style existing in the document as e-mailed, but also existed in the template and re-attaching it caused duplicates to be created. This occurred, if I remember rightly, just as a result of re-attaching the template to the document, without making any other changes.

    I also experienced the same crashing problem when having the styles task pane open but avoided it by closing it before closing the document!

    I haven't tweaked this file recently but, after reading the thread about Word Templates at

    http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/templates.htm

    which I think I got from the Lounge somewhere, I created a Global Template for the macros/toolbars etc. and a document template for the styles. This certainly made the process a whole lot more stable but I can't remember whether it got rid of all of the problems - it's been some time since I looked at it!

    I know there aren't necessarily any great solutions here but sometimes it helps to know that someone else has encountered exactly the same circumstances. Try the Global Template route if you haven't already as this seemed to help when files were being moved/e-mailed/copied etc. although you may still have to re-attach the document template. The link shows how to do all of this.

    HTH

    Tony Simmons

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    Re: Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    Terri

    Thanks for your input. I don't have Word 2002 on this machine so I can't verify this immediately but you have provided a very good summary of where that problem might be coming from. We have seen it when inserting from autotext entries and this would have the same effect as a copy and paste.

    In earlier versions of Word, applying a paragraph style to selected text which does not include a paragraph mark applys a character style version of the paragraph style to the selection. That it now causes Word to create a rogue style as well is a pretty serious problem in trying to control big documents where the environment isn't bolted down very tightly.

    ------------------ Added 2June2003---------------------
    Well, my client has tested this now and tells me she can re-create the rogue char styles using Terri's suggestion so that solves mystery of how they got there and how they kept getting re-introduced to cleaned files. I am guessing that a similar bug is causing the table styles to change spontaneously on tables too although I don't have a method for reproducing this problem although it may be related to deleting a paragraph/character style from the document.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    Tony

    I'm glad someone else has had the crash on close with the Task Pane open too. I was amazed to discover that gem. As usual there are other factors at work here because if there is no template attached then the crash doesn't happen and some templates (ones with no useful content) don't show the problem.

    Going to a global template is one way although with an AutoClose macro going then I can stick with just the one template and forget the add-in.

    Thanks for the verification that someone else gets the same problems. I'll do further investigations next time I'm back on a Word 2002 machine although it may be a while.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    I'd be interested to know if my analysis of the styles is correct - this drove me slightly mad for a while, having to replace and then delete the duplicate entries for styles every time I re-attached the template, without any other modifications taking place.

    Good luck with your investigations - I'll keep this thread under observation!

    Tony

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    Re: Word 2002 Oddities (Word 2002)

    Tony

    I don't think that your analysis is 100% correct as the usual behaviour for Word when the user forces an update of the styles -
    1. where a style name exists in both the template and the document - the document styles are modified to match the template styles
    2. where the document styles don't exist in the template, the document style is untouched (apart from any cascading style attributes if based on a style that was modified)
    3. any style in the template that doesn't exist in the document is added to the document
    This situation can get muddy where there are style aliases in a document and different styles using each alias name in the template.

    What I think you were seeing was that refreshing the styles from the template was causing the (3) to occur and so you were getting new styles added to your file. You could verify this by examining your template to check the styles which it contains.

    Note that the complete list of styles is tricky in Word 2002 as you can choose whether you wish to show style names in the list of styles and some existing styles may be hidden but present. A serious bug as described earlier in this thread can also arise which creates 'char char' style aliases that can't be displayed in the listing either. All these hidden styles do get displayed if you save the file as RTF and then edit the file with a text editor (or use Word to open the file as a 'Recover text' format). Another way to display the REAL list of styles is by using a macro to create the listing.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Paragraph Style settings in a table Office XP

    Its great to have search back again!

    So I'm into styles etc in my work environment which is Office 2k, and I bring these templates home to use with my Office XP there, but it is a much less intensive use!

    I have just spent a VERY frustrating time working in a table and totally failing to make styles stick . Unfortunately, the entire document was table, and so I did not realise that outside the table things were behaving perfectly. So there is something about styles in a table that behaves differently.

    Specifically, Inside the table Word just refuses to let me specify the paragraph separation. On the same style I can reduce the before and after setting to zero, and they close up. Inside the table, I can see the same styles go to close up and then open out again on the screen.

    Any ideas?

    thanks

    Mike C

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    Re: Paragraph Style settings in a table Office XP

    Mike

    The first thing I would try would be to change the Table Style applied to that table. Some of the paragraph style attributes can be overridden by table style attributes. If you change the table style to one of the standard ones eg 'Table Grid' does the paragraph style then play the game. I am assuming you have already removed local formatting inside the table by selecting and doing Ctrl-Q and Ctrl-Space.

    If you go spelunking in after selecting a table style and right clicking it in the task bar and choosing Modify you will discover that you can change the paragraph attributes of text inside that table (or particular columns, rows etc). This may be what has happened to you.

    Another tip: You can see what the name of the Table Style is if you apply the Normal Paragraph Style to a paragraph inside the table and then have a look at the style box on the formatting toolbar. It shows the name of the table style not 'Normal' as you might reasonably expect.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: Paragraph Style settings in a table Office XP

    Andrew, thank you. I had spotted that "normal" inside a table was a different style, but had not thought to change that default table style. Cant check it until I get home tonight.

    If there is this sense of a hierarchy of precendence (table>cell>table style>normal style or whatever) is it documented anywhere? How on earth is an upgrader to spot user interface changes like this? and indeed what happens when a table prepared one side of such a change is then worked on on the other side of it?

    cheers,

    Mike C

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