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  1. #1
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    Viruses from Fake XP/IE Updates (Win XPP SP1 IE6SP1)

    Leif--

    I can understand your point about the blue, but it is the color that the markup language defaults links to, and indeed the color of your links and everyone elses' links.

    1) The instructions for the markup language have a number of colors as you know Loungers have a choice of a number of skins and colors--so are you saying to try to look at them and anticipate which colors will be easy to read not knowing which colors thousands of people have chosen, or to try to cut back on blue for emphasis? If I used black for bold wouldn't that give a certain portion of people a tough time if black blends in? Are or you saying cut the amount of optional color--because I can't control the blue that hyperlinks default to, and I can probably reduce the labeling of a link, say a KB name to a KB number, but I still can't change that a link is blue.

    2) I don't understand and would appreciate the explanation on the 200KB problem--so I can learn from it. It just happened that in pasting from different sources to composite different email headers, it was a little more time consuming to keep resizing them with Paint.But is the main downside to size that people on dial-up or on slower connections that aren't broadband would take an increased amount of time to load with those images, or server space?

    I don't understand Bruce's point about "consuming the entire F.O.V. or breaking the lounge formatting"--I'd like to learn and understand what you mean--because this seems to go to some sense of aesthetics and proportion. If you look at others' post for yesterday, several screenshots are the exact size as mine. I'm not the only one who uses hyperlinks or blue--and some use a lot of red which I can read but is not particularly easy on the eyes--but they use it for emphasis sparingly and I can understand that.

    I would be glad to get done what you want--I just don't understand the precise problem with size and would like to--you didn't really say. I can't change that hyperlinks are blue or anticipate the color choices of everyone else.

    SMBP

  2. #2
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    Link and markup colors vs. stylesheets

    This thread is getting off topic, but -

    <hr>I can understand your point about the blue, but it is the color that the markup language defaults links to, and indeed the color of your links and everyone elses' links<hr>
    This is patently untrue in the Lounge. Hyperlink colors are determined by the skin, or stylesheet. Thus, you don't control the color of hyperlinks at all. It's a function of the user's browser, and blue is the default in most browsers unless the stylesheet on a website specifies another color, as is the case here in the Lounge.

    The rest of this discussion will be moved to Lounge Matters - please reply there.
    -Mark

  3. #3
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    Re: Link and markup colors vs. stylesheets

    The point of Leif's post is that any direct formatting involving colors in the Lounge can look bad in alternate stylesheets. Most Loungers use Classic, but there are many to choose from - it's better to use bolding and underlines to make something stand out, or if you must change text colors, also <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #000000; font-weight: bold"><font color=blue>highlight</font color=blue></span hi> it with a background color to make it legible regardless of the skin in use.
    -Mark

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    Re: Link and markup colors vs. stylesheets

    Thanks.

    SMBP

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    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
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    Re: Viruses from Fake XP/IE Updates (Win XPP SP1 IE6SP1)

    Two issues on graphics.

    (1) Physical Dimensions. Try to keep width to a maximum of 640 pixels. As you've undoubtedly noticed, when posts get wide, either due to graphics or <!t>[pre]<!/t> tags that someone didn't wrap nicely, those with modest screen dimensions have to scroll horizontally. It's bad in IE, and it's worse if you get the nighly archives.

    (2) File Size. The uploader caps out at 100K, but using PNG and JPG appropriately, you can keep most graphics under 40K. I've posted my view on this before in the "Joys of PNG" thread and elsewhere, probably on the PixPlace board, but I can't remember.

  6. #6
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    Re: Viruses from Fake XP/IE Updates (Win XPP SP1 IE6SP1)

    Thanks Jefferson--

    This gives me a limit to shoot for, and I can go back and play around with the resizing in some of these image programs. I remember "Joys of PNG", read it a few times, and thought I saved it, but the threads there are gone in 90 days. The problem I had with Paint resizing the emails and headers image (wide as my screen) was that it doesn't have a lot of the nuances that other image programs have when you resize a jpeg. You lose focus, resolution or clarity quickly even stretching to 90% in Paint let alone lower. Reducing by pixels fares no better. I'm not sure if I could save some of these as a PNG with Paint. There might have been something I didn't figure out to do with it. I have resized fairly well in Paint using repetitive 90% stretches, but this won't work on some images without sacrificing the crispness of the image.

    I also hadn't thought about the scrolling relative to different browsers. I'm using IE and most of the time a 17" screen, and I have to scroll on posting replies on certain threads at times--probably determined by an image on the thread or on the post I'm answering.

    SMBP

  7. #7
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    Re: Link and markup colors vs. stylesheets

    Ed Note by SMBP: A look at the skins shows that 8/19 choices are dark; had I been thinking in those terms I would have found a much better way than blue for emphasis. I'm not sure how well bold black shows on these dark colors since I use a light one.

    Hyperlink is blue then, due to the color my browser, IE6SP1 confers on it then. Stats from any source overwhelmingly indicate that IE is the most common browser on the planet although the lounge seems to have some pretty vocal Mozilla or Mozilla type or Avant proponents. The point was, and I didn't raise the subtopic of too much blue--Leif pointed out that using blue markup would give difficulty to people using a "blue skin:"

    "remove any font colouring, particularly the blue. Anyone wishing to read *everything* you write, and who uses (for example) a blue skin, is going to have a harder time than normal."

    Obviously, its not my intention to make anything hard to read. Since all of us who try to help or get help and learn here want everyone to have an easier time than normal, I'm happy to either stop blue highlighting although many others use blue and red on occasion and other colors for emphasis, but I can't understand Mark and Leif didn't offer how I can anticipate the blue skin--which would bring the different skin colors as a factor in the camouflage factor in reading. I removed the blue highlighting in that thread, but I'm not sure how my blue highlighting affects people with the blue skins, and the blue highlighting of others doesn't. Is there a preferred highlighting color, or should that aspect of markup just be ignored? I use it blue highlighting pretty sparingly, and am not sure if the links are blue because of the browser or that extends to markup as well. Maybe the idea is to use highlighting more sparingly, and just use bold black when you do it--but it seems that bold black could give some of those alligator green or other dark skins some problem. I appreciate that it is a nice feature that people can choose or change skins, just as people enjoy skinning Winamp or using TGTSoft or Stardocks to have fun with themes.

    If you will move or duplicate Leif's 264336 Post I responded to on blue markup color, it will give the post context instead of seeming to be one ectopic post.

    SMBP

  8. #8
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
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    Re: Viruses from Fake XP/IE Updates (Win XPP SP1 IE6SP1)

    I don't use Paint to resize. I try to shrink the dialogs before capturing them so I don't have to resize. I also cut off parts I don't think are needed.

    To save PNGs I use Microsoft Photo Editor (comes with Microsoft Office, you can add it from the Tools category with the installer) when I'm in a hurry, or Adobe Photoshop Elements (its Save for Web feature lets you preview different formats for quality and file size) when I need the most flexibility.

    If you do need to resize and don't have or like the above, you could try Irfanview (free for home use). There are step-by-step instructions here.

  9. #9
    Silver Lounger Bruce K's Avatar
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    Re: Viruses from Fake XP/IE Updates (Win XPP SP1 IE6SP1)

    Hi, Jefferson ~

    <IMG SRC=http://www.krymow.com/images/fyi.gif> In this post there is a link for step-by-step instructions for resizing/resampling that represents the last few current versions of IrfanView.

  10. #10
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    Re: Viruses from Fake XP/IE Updates (Win XPP SP1 IE6SP1)

    This is a post from Jefferson in Pix Place 26 Nov 02:

    The Joy of PNG
    Post: 201139


    I just recently started saving bitmaps in PNG format using Microsoft Photo Editor, and I am very impressed with the compression. In the attached example, which itself was saved as a PNG, the source file sizes (picturing the whole dialog) are as follows:

    True Color (24-bit) Windows BMP: 677 KB
    True Color (24-bit) PNG: 17 KB
    True Color (24-bit) JPEG Saved at "70" quality: 51 KB
    256-Color (Max. available) GIF saved from Paint: 15 KB
    256-Color (Max. available) GIF saved from Photo Editor: 52 KB

    The JPEG image shows significant artifacts/noise. A True Color (24-bit) JPEG Saved at "100" quality, not shown, was nice and clear, but consumes 152 KB, too large for Lounge posting. Neither of the GIF images is attractive, which I why I have, for a long time now, been first saving the True Color graphic down to only 16 colors before saving as GIF. But I think now that this is not necessary because of PNG.

    Other than incompatibility with early browsers, are there any reasons not to use the PNG format?

    j scheer2000
    __________________________________________________ _____________________________

    SMBP
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #11
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    Re: Viruses from Fake XP/IE Updates (Win XPP SP1 IE6SP1)

    Thanks--

    I always think about trying to shrink first, but I'm not sure how you get that done, because if you resize the window --for example I had trouble when I was trying to show an email header from a fake Microsoft email, and include the width that all the information occupied. IE already has a slider when I show the full header, and to resize the window is to cut the header off I want to show--that's a thing worsened by using IE as your browser I think--don't know what would happen in Avant or a Mozilla variant or Opera. If I try to shrink the window first by resizing it, I cut off information I want to show. Straight resizing with Paint just gave me a blurry, bad image that I wasn't going to put up. I try to cut off anything I don't need by cropping with Paint--I can get anything cropped with Paint--it's the resizing that I need to get down. I kept looking for the dots in Paint Leif talked about--sometimes they show up, and other times they don't but if you click the sides of the grey area you want to move to crop, they'll show and become arrows if you hover.

    I did try Photo Editor when you and Leif and some others suggested it in a thread a while back (still don't understand why these Office Tools have to be fetched from the disk)--I think it just results in people missing them who might try them if they loaded on install. I will give it another look and I'm using Elements now (I have Photoshop), but probably not much difference in their cropping or resizing features--have to see. Elements has a few approaches to keeping or improving the "acuity" of your image when you resize including the focus tools, unsharp mask filter, and sharpen tool-- taking a while to make them all work.

    If I recall, you often like to save in one format then convert to another--jpeg to PNG or PNG to jpeg, gif to jpeg--not sure which and what you use to do this two format conversion, and you must use something besides Paint (Photo Editor?) to get this done. I know you've put this up before. Do you still have "Joy of PNG" that you can post or send me? If you post it here, it won't be deleted in 90 days as in Pix Place.

    I know a lot of people love Irfranview-- and Bruce has a tutorial along with one on Spider at Software Finds--I started with it but it took over all my file associations and probably because I didn't drill into it carefully enough to figure out how to stop or reverse or prevent that aspect.

    Thanks for the link--I need to work on the "Save for web feature" of Elements that lets you preview different formats and the 'pixel tweaking and quality control features' of Elements.

    SMBP

  12. #12
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
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    Re: Viruses from Fake XP/IE Updates (Win XPP SP1 IE6SP1)

    How did you find that?? Here's the graphic again (because the above was converted to JPEG, there are some extra compression artifacts).
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
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    Re: Viruses from Fake XP/IE Updates (Win XPP SP1 IE6SP1)

    You can get a much better GIF than that by using an optimised palette. I imported your graphic to Corel PhotoPaint, cropped the PNG and exported it to GIF to get this 6.71 KByte file.

    StuartR
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: gif x.GIF (6.7 KB, 0 views)

  14. #14
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    Re: Viruses from Fake XP/IE Updates (Win XPP SP1 IE6SP1)

    Jefferson--

    I was concerned about my posting it as a jpeg and when I did altering the image so it wouldn't display fully or well what you were trying to show. I often save posts or long threads so I can have them handy to reread/and relearn later, and for reasons I don't fully understand (and you tried to answer a while back) I save as "Web archive single file.mht's" because they seem to hold up better, i.e over time they don't "disappear" or the links become broken and you end up with a page error when you try to click on it and view it later.

    I'm not even sure if it somehow gets the image 'more securely' and I know this sounds lame, on the hard drive. I have an image file with image tips and I had saved your post in there. Using "Search"for the exact tiltle "Joys of Peng" didn't find it for me on my computer--I wrote that off as another instance of Search failure-- that "Search" in XP is well documented on sites/groups to be much less than perfect whether you keep indexing on or off to enhance performance or not.

    I appreciate the concept, but am having a hard time grasping all the differernces even staring at your original. I would like to get you to post a stepwise (#1 -#2 #3) here on how you first "shrink the dialogues before capturing" without manually resizing to the point that you get a considerably less sharp or crisp image--i.e. blur the acuity of the image in doing so and then the steps you use--i.e. do you save as a gif first than to jpeg or png--what format do you save as first and as how many bits/ and then what do you go to--and are you using IE to do this?

    Thanks,

    SMBP

  15. #15
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
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    Re: Viruses from Fake XP/IE Updates (Win XPP SP1 IE6SP1)

    Wow, that is nice. Huge improvement over Paint and Photo Editor. But honestly, I'm too lazy to optimize my palette when I can save straight to PNG. <img src=/S/laugh.gif border=0 alt=laugh width=15 height=15>

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