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    Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (2000/XP)

    I've noticed that several 3rd party numbering systems use styles linked to heading levels. Are there any Cons to this? I was linking my numbering styles to custom styles (ie - NumLevelOne, NumLevelTwo, etc.) since I was afraid that documents coming from outside sources might be using Heading Styles differently. I would really like advice on whether or not I should be linking them to Heading styles. <img src=/S/confused.gif border=0 alt=confused width=15 height=20> These numbering schemes are used mostly in Law firms and often on documents from outside sources. Any and all info will be GREATLY appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Kris

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (2000/XP)

    Hi, Kris. Numbering linked to custom styles which are based on normal are best. Your fear about having it linked to heading styles is valid. There are some really good whitepapers available regarding Word's numbering although I don't know if they directly address your question. Microsystems addresses many issues (including numbering) directly related to the legal environment; MS Word MVP's FAQ has many useful tips and info; and Microsoft's KB Article 259255 (sorry I can't provide a link -- their support page is giving me a script error) which provides a link to or is the "Legal Users Guide".

    I hope this helps.
    Karen

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    Hi Karen:
    I haven't seen any papers advising not to link numbering to heading styles. In contexts other than law, I've actually seen the opposite. The advantage of Heading styles is that they are fairly robust, easy to apply, & readily lend themselves to TOCs. I think as long as you link the numbering to the styles, you're probably OK. However, I don't consider myself a numbering expert, especially with legal numbering, so I'm curious to read & hear more.

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    I would love to see any information regarding any cons associated with linking numbering to heading styles. We teach that method (using the SoftWise Numbering Suite) at the law firm for which I work. So far, we have had real success in using this method. We have found heading style numbering to be stable and revisable in an otherwise healthy document. If the document has other problems, the most common for us being bad conversion from Word Perfect, there can be problems, but fixing the document generally fixes the numbering problems.

    One of the things I like most about using heading styles is the outline functionality they carry and the ability they give you to revise documents quickly and easily using the outline view. I have found that to be a real time saver and use it myself frequently. And, as Phil said, they make generating a Table of Contents about as easy as it could possibly be.

    If you are planning on linking numbering to heading styles using native Word (i.e., without a third-party product such as SoftWise), make sure you read the document on the Microsystems website titled "The Seven Laws of Word's Outline Numbering". Word is pretty fussy about how you create and revise numbering schemes, which is one reason I really like using SoftWise in conjunction with Word. It makes it much harder to make a mistake.

    Lee Morgan

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    It sounds like the Heading styles are winning. My question then would be what do you do if you need more than one numbering scheme in a document? I was also basing my styles on a custom normal style (Normal_cs) since you never know what someone is going to do with their normal style. I guess there really isn't a definitive answer to numbering and style issues.

    I'm looking into a couple of 3rd party solutions. They just seem so expensive.

    Thanks for your thoughts and comments...
    Kris
    <img src=/S/thankyou.gif border=0 alt=thankyou width=40 height=15>

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    You didnt' tell us the most important thing:
    Are the styles you want to number headings?

    If so, I'd definitely recommend to use the built-in Heading styles.

    But since you say you have different numbering schemes in the same document, I guess not all of them are headings.
    For (simple numbered or outline numbered) lists, I'd use the built-in "List Number" styles.

    The reason for using built-in styles is that often they have some "magic" properties that you can't achieve with custom styles.
    For example, since Word knows that the "Heading 1,2,3..." styles are used for headings, it can do things with them in Outline view, or in creating the TOC, that would be impossible to do with custom styles.

    Other reasons:
    -- It is hard to avoid the built-in styles anyway (say for footnotes, comments, headers...), so it's easiest to let Word have it's way.
    -- In particular, it's just about impossible to get rid of the "Heading 1/2/3" styles, so you might just as well use them.
    -- If you copy text from one document to another, you usually want the text to take on the formatting of the document you paste into. This only works if you use styles that have the same name in both documents. You could use your own consistent naming scheme, but using the built-in styles is a lot easier. And if everybody would stick to the built-in styles, things would be much simpler.

    For tips on setting up numbered heading styles, see Shauna Kelly's site. For "List Number" styles, the procedure would be very similar.

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16> Klaus

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    Actually, you can set up custom styles so that they have the additional functionality that heading styles have in terms of the outline view and tables of contents. You select the style, then click Modify/Format/Paragraph. In the upper right-hand corner of the window, there is a setting for Outline Level. This is set by default at Level 1 for Heading 1, Level 2 for Heading 2, etc., and at Body Text for most non-heading styles. However, the Title style is by default a Level 1 style and the Subtitle style is by default a Level 2 style, and thus are included in tables of contents. You can exclude them by changing that setting to Body Text.

    HOWEVER, why anybody would want to go through such a convoluted process when the heading styles are already there and ready to go is beyond me. As Klaus pointed out, the functionality is there, you can't get rid of them, and, may I add, I think they work pretty well, so I'd advise using them. Klaus' point about using the same names for the same styles across all your documents is also an excellent point.

    The question of having multiple numbering schemes in a document is one that comes up pretty frequently, particularly in legal documents. You could have one numbering scheme in the body of the document and different numbering schemes in various attachments, and still need them to act as headings. One trick we use is to start a second numbering scheme at a higher heading number. For example, if the body of the document uses four levels of headings, we use Heading 5 for the first level of the first attachment, Heading 6 for the second level, and so on. Of course, we also try to encourage consistency in numbering schemes throughout the document, but you can't always do that. If you run out of heading styles, you could always begin to create custom styles with heading properties.

    I have to say that I have yet to think of something so outrageous that some attorney somewhere hasn't tried it in their document!

    Lee Morgan

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    Two of the "magic" properties of built-in heading styles that won't work (at least not the same way) with custom styles:
    -- They can be used to number Figures or Tables.
    -- They allow you to include the chapter number in the TOC.

    I'm sure there are quite a few other magical properties, and that the "List Number" styles have some magic to them, too. But many of these special properties are not especially documented.

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16> Klaus

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    Lee, Klaus, Kris et al.,

    Coming late to this very interesting thread.
    For most purposes, I'd agree that linking the built-in Heading styles to outline numbering is going to be the most reliable.

    However in relation to needing multiple numbering schemes in a single document, the way this was handled at my former employer might be relevant and of interest:

    They wanted a firmwide template environment and to the extent possible, they wanted the same styles and numbering choices available in all templates used within the firm - so that for instance, a numbered clause from a legal agreement could be pasted into a letter or memo, and it would retain all of the original styling.

    The main legal agreement template needed to accommodate a large number of different possible outline numbering schemes - because of this, it wasn't possible to fit them all within the available 9 slots in the Heading styles. Within a single typical legal agreement, there might be a primary section with numbered clauses, with numbering like this:

    1 / 1.1 / 1.1.1 / (I) / (a) etc.

    Further into that same document, there might be a 'Terms and Conditions' section that required numbering like this:

    1. / (a) / (i) etc.

    And later in some appendices, there might be numbering similar to that in the first section, but with the difference that while the numbering in the first section might have the "1." paragraphs functioning as a headings (bolded, larger font size, keep with next, include in TOC), in the appendix similarly-numbered paragraphs would have 'paragraphs only' numbering (run into the paragraph, same font size as rest of paragraph, don't include in TOC).

    There were even more options available, but the above is enough to give an idea.
    The only way to provide for this was by building separate sets of styles that were related to different outline numbering schemes:

    Level1, Level2, Level3, Level4 etc.
    T&C1, T&C2, T&C3, T&C4 etc.
    Sched1, Sched2, Sched3 etc.

    Additionally the user, via a small userform, could dictate how many levels would function as 'headings' (i.e. how many would be bolded text, keep with next, automatically include in TOC).

    We made it easy for the user to access and apply these styles by making them available from menus on a custom toolbar, as well as via key shortcuts (and additionally in some templates, a limited number of them available on the right-click shortcut menus as well).

    The styles and links to numbering were built - laboriously - by hand in the first place. We then recorded macros which captured all of the settings so it was easy for us to reapply the work into other templates, as well as for support personnel to restore broken numbering in individual problem documents.

    The above was done in an int'l law firm with over 5000 users, who probably produced upwards of 3 million documents in the first four years these templates were in use. The numbering proved to be relatively stable and reliable - so it is possible to do it without SoftWise and/or Heading styles - just thought the above might be of interest.

    Gary

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    Hi Gary:
    Good to hear from you. Very interesting comments. One of your statements partiularly peaked my interest.
    <hr>Additionally the user, via a small userform, could dictate how many levels would function as 'headings' (i.e. how many would be bolded text, keep with next, automatically include in TOC).<hr>
    Would this userform change the style definitions or would it add these properties as direct formatting?

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    Let's add one more PRO to using native Heading1, 2, etc: the Browse By buttons!

    (Lower right corner, click the round button between the up/down arrows, and select Browse by Heading. Now click the down/up arrows. Or, you can use the keyboard: Ctrl+Page Down / Ctrl+Page Up are linked to the Browse By button settings.)

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    Hi Phil,

    Yes, the code run from the userform would change the style definition, so a change to the heading properties for 'Level1' would propagate to all 'Level1" paragraphs throughout the document.

    Gary

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    Gary,
    Very interesting information! I have a few additional questions for you. First, how did your firm deal with documents coming from outside sources? Did they re-format documents that obviously weren't using any types of styles?

    Second, did a person start with a template that didn't have a particular numbering style and then did they attach it using the user form? I am thinking that rather than having several different templates each with a different numbering scheme, that there would be a main template for the type of document (ie lease) and then they would attach the numbering schemes that they need. Any thoughts on this?

    Kris

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    Kris,

    Glad that was of interest! (it was a bit loong <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>)

    Dealing with documents from outside sources: The determining factor was who was going to 'run' or 'own' the documents. If the document came from an outside source, and all that was wanted was our side's comments or minor revisions, then the document was kept in the original format and we did not bother to apply our template, styles, or numbering - an example of this might be a document which came from the other side's counsel.

    If a document came from an outside source but we were meant to take ownership of it (for example, a document sent to us by a firm which was co-counsel with us on a particular deal), then the document would be completely reformatted to our firm's house style.

    Second point: we had a general legal agreement template which served for most purposes (although there were a couple of others, in particular for a couple of groups that used quite different numbering). When you created a new document based on this template, all of the numbering styles and outline schemes were available to you in the new document. You would then apply whichever numbering styles were needed for a particular document.

    Gary

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    Re: Pros/Cons Link Heading Style to Numbering (200

    > Let's add one more PRO to using native Heading1, 2, etc: the Browse By buttons!

    Yeah, definitely another nice piece of magic.

    <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15> Klaus

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